City population densities

[eepjr24]

I am probably getting way too caught up in details for some of my mapping applications, but I really prefer to be in the ballpark of realism when I can. As such, for city maps I am trying to figure some rough and ready population density numbers.

Does anyone have a good source specifically for city / urban areas in any country, from say the 1000's to the 1600's? I found these on the same site, but they seem to contradict each other and my google foo failed to turn up much else useful.

http://www.demographia.com/dm-lon31.htm

http://demographia.com/db-lonuza1680.htm

I am aware of Medieval Demographics Made Easy, but many have cast doubts on the numbers there and just doing some round math on his city density numbers seem off. Using his estimates versus real population data, London would be 30% more dense than a "very crowded city" of the time (and that is with generous rounding in his favor).

Even if it is a physical book that I need to go purchase, any references are appreciated.

- Ernie

[Falconius]

I don't have any specific references unfortunately but in general, people per square meter of building in the cities gets higher the farther you go back in history. Think about all the stories of whole families living in one or two rooms during the industrial revolution. Even for manor houses and other grand residences they had a fair density because they had staff compliments that would seem huge today (so long as their fortunes weren't fading). Furthermore if you look at the pure material and space density of any ancient town or city, where they often have roads which a man can span with his arms, just think of that in terms of people and I think you'd get the approximate idea for whatever time period you are thinking of. I've seen some manor houses in Ceasera where they had baths and rooms and all that grandeur at the time, and most of the rooms would actually fit inside of my own 32 sqm room, easily. Palaces really are the anomaly where they were so incredibly big it just boggles the mind. Not even the crazy grand French palaces, but real old ones like in Ur or Babylon or Rome where just freaking huge even by today's standards. Even the Palazzo Medici built in an incredibly dense city like Florence was just absolutely gigantic.

I think a good rule of thumb is to base the density on the architecture and spacing of the city. The 1000's to 1600's is kind of big target which also covers the Black Death, so I'm not sure.

I did find a very short but interesting summary of Rome's populations using the search "million people in rome" in Bing. and also this very dense but kind of interesting academic paper which may be of more interest to you.

[eepjr24]

I did find a very short but interesting summary of Rome's populations using the search "million people in rome" in Bing. and also this very dense but kind of interesting academic paper which may be of more interest to you.

That last paper was enormously helpful, thanks! Not a bad read at all, really, 10.5 pages and the language was not that technical. Much better than reading "The Midieval Town" by Mundy or trying to find a translation for the Rorig version from German (google translate is great until you are trying to read a book, ugh.).

For anyone else looking, it's a good read generally, but the histogram on page 9 is a quick hit if you just want general numbers, it summarizes data from over 400 cities in the pre-industrial era.

- E