Atlas Awards discussion/suggestions/feedback

[ChickPea]

This thread is for any comments, suggestions and discussion for the Atlas Awards. If you have thoughts, post 'em here.

But wait...

Before we get into things, there are a couple of things I need to make clear from the start.

We've had several suggestions in the past for new categories. Please understand from the get go that we're not going to radically increase the number of categories from the current level. We will certainly consider changes, and perhaps a small increase in categories if there is good reason to do so, but more categories equals a lot more work for the CLs. Frankly, even nominating will become a chore if there are too many options.

So, with that in mind, if you have an idea for change, please answer the following questions in your suggestion.


1. What problem do you see with the current setup?
2. What changes to the categories, or what new categories, do you suggest?
3. How will this address the problem?

(I'm not asking for essay length answers, just a couple of sentences.)


It's true that some of the current categories may not feel like natural bedfellows, but our problem is that many map styles are relatively niche with not a whole lot of submissions. We’re trying to 1) keep the number of categories at a manageable level, and 2) incorporate as many mapping styles as we can in the Awards. To give an example, take space maps. We get quite a few posted over a year, but not as many as you may think. There simply aren't enough submissions to justify having a Space category on its own. This applies to most of the categories that aren’t Regional or Town/City. We need a significant pool of entries to justify giving something its own category, and we often don’t get that (though it can vary from year to year). Please bear this in mind if you’re going to suggest new categories.

For reference, here are the current categories (as of Aug 2020):

Best World Map
Best Regional Map
Best City, Town, or Village Map
Best Hand-drawn or Traditional Map
Best Space, Sci-fi, or Modern Map
Best Structure, Dungeon, or Gaming Map
Most Creative Map
Best Overall Map

I cannot promise that we'll implement any of the suggestions we receive. I can promise that we will read and carefully consider all serious suggestions.

[ChickPea]

To kick things off, I thought I’d post a couple of thoughts that I’ve had dealing with the Awards over the past couple of years.


Firstly, Best World Map

1. What problem to do you see with the current setup?
There has been quite a bit of confusion over whether something IS a world map or not, as we’ve had to delete quite a number of nominations where someone has chosen a Regional map in the World map category. Also, certainly last year, there weren’t all that many entries (possibly down to confusion of whether something was World or Regional!) I think there were more entries in previous years, so possibly last year was just an outlier.

2. What changes to the categories, or what new categories do you suggest?
Possibly add World Maps to Regional? But see below...

3. How will this address the problem?
The obvious solution is to merge World Maps with Regional (since people mix them up anyway), but my issue with that is that Regional maps is already so overloaded. I think – very roughly – about 75% of all maps at the Guild would qualify as regional. Obviously a regional map could also fit in other categories (eg Most Creative, Best Overall) but I’m hesitant to add even more to the general Regional category. So, I dunno…


Black & White Maps

1. What problem to do you see with the current setup?
I’ve considered nominating B&W maps a few times in the past, but, when you look at even the most beautifully drawn monochrome map… and then you look at a full colour map… the colour map is just more compelling, as I think we’re more naturally drawn to full colour art, and the B&W stuff loses out.

2. What changes to the categories, or what new categories do you suggest?
I was tentatively thinking of having a ‘Best Hand-drawn, Traditional or B&W Map’.

3. How will this address the problem?
We don’t get a massive number of nominations for Best Hand-drawn/Traditional, compared to other categories, and I feel B & W could slot in quite nicely here. Indeed, many hand-drawn maps are already B & W, so there’s a good crossover.


So, those are my initial thoughts. If you’ve got ideas, make your case!

[Azélor]

World map vs Regional map: I would merge them or give the regional map a more specific definition.

I always considered the difference between world map and regional map to be artificial.
For example, if the world only has one continent and is shown covering most of the planet, it is a world map (especially if specified in the title).
But if the same continent is on a rectangular frame with no clear world boundaries, it is probably just a continent.

The biggest difference is the scope but both maps are visually very similar since they display the same elements in the same fashion.
World maps show more land but are less detailed which in turn makes the land appear smaller but the result give something very similar.



I would say that for me an actual regional map would be a map with a larger scale (objects appear larger) such as a map showing a city and the surrounding countryside. Maybe a hundred kilometres wide, or the size of a small country. Focusing on the smaller things that small scale map cannot show, yet not displaying every tree/building like a city map does. Something in between like this map of Kingdom Comes Deliverance
The only issue is that this kind of map is not the most common and just like your space maps, there aren't enough to justify a separate category.

[Naima]

World maps should be always showing the whole planet , a Regional map should cover a region or a portion of a continent.

So I would do:

World map. Ex : Mars, The Earth, Game of Thrones continents together...

Continental map Ex : Europe, asia, Eesteros etc...

Regional map Ex : Japan, England , Westeros North etc...

[Naima]

Double post.

[ChickPea]

The problem with World maps vs Regional maps was the confusion over which category was applicable. People often had to read the thread to try to discover what they were looking at, and many people (somewhat understandably) didn't do that. I'm not keen to add more levels of complexity with differing scales on regional maps. I'm trying to get away from that problem, not add to it!

[Falconius]

It's been so long I don't really remember what problems I noticed at the time. I do remember there was issues with the categorizations, some things just really didn't belong together. Perhaps part of the issue is the categories are split according to scale, and then more categories spiting according to genre, and then categories with no true specific definition.

Perhaps it's better to just edit things down and split the categories into Best Large Scale Map (City, Town, dungeon), and Best Small Scale Map (world, regional). And perhaps Best Medium Scale? Nah... Anyways, that would solve Azelor's issue as both Regional and World would be in the small scale category. And then maybe Best Building Scale Map.

I think another way to split the categories instead of genre is maybe by styles. Like hand drawn style, versus graphical vector style, versus computer generated/clip art. Maybe, not sure what to call the them, but I know the looks and could give examples. I'm not sure, the point being that the goal of categorization really is to compare like to like, and that hasn't been happening. And obviously fantasy maps are highly dominant here, so it's going to lead to very lopsided voting if the categories are split "Fantasy", and "Everything Else".

for instance as it currently stands you could have a beautiful hand drawn style fantasy city dominate 4 categories fairly easily. Multi piece maps that include different scales with insets excreta could perhaps do even more. If I think of art competitions they either split them up according to subject (like portrait paintings, landscapes, abstract nonsense painting, etc.) or by materials (pastel, oil paint, watercolour, ink, sculpture and so on). Maybe we can find some cues from that sort of thing to help guide us?

[Naima]

It's been so long I don't really remember what problems I noticed at the time. I do remember there was issues with the categorizations, some things just really didn't belong together. Perhaps part of the issue is the categories are split according to scale, and then more categories spiting according to genre, and then categories with no true specific definition.

Perhaps it's better to just edit things down and split the categories into Best Large Scale Map (City, Town, dungeon), and Best Small Scale Map (world, regional). And perhaps Best Medium Scale? Nah... Anyways, that would solve Azelor's issue as both Regional and World would be in the small scale category. And then maybe Best Building Scale Map.

I think another way to split the categories instead of genre is maybe by styles. Like hand drawn style, versus graphical vector style, versus computer generated/clip art. Maybe, not sure what to call the them, but I know the looks and could give examples. I'm not sure, the point being that the goal of categorization really is to compare like to like, and that hasn't been happening. And obviously fantasy maps are highly dominant here, so it's going to lead to very lopsided voting if the categories are split "Fantasy", and "Everything Else".

for instance as it currently stands you could have a beautiful hand drawn style fantasy city dominate 4 categories fairly easily. Multi piece maps that include different scales with insets excreta could perhaps do even more. If I think of art competitions they either split them up according to subject (like portrait paintings, landscapes, abstract nonsense painting, etc.) or by materials (pastel, oil paint, watercolour, ink, sculpture and so on). Maybe we can find some cues from that sort of thing to help guide us?

Most of the maps are made by hand in the end even the cgi ones... but I think the most important division should be according to area portrayed, like :

World
Continent
Region
City
field
Space
Structural
Creative



then distinguish among medium like :

Black and white
Colored

and traditional vs digital

[ChickPea]

I quite like the idea of categorising by large to small scale, but one of the reasons we gave some of the niche genres their own category was basically to give them a fighting chance. A dungeon map will never, ever win against a detailed city map. That's the main reason why some categories are based on scale, and some on genre. We wanted to include as many map styles as we could, while still allowing the niche map styles to have a chance to win something.

I'm also a little hesitant to divide up by style, unless it's hand-drawn (pen & paper) vs 'made with a computer'. People use so many different tools to make their maps that it's hard to know where to draw the line. It's a lot simpler with paints! Bogie uses photoshop, hand-drawers have computer labelling, Mouse uses every program under the sun for her maps!

I hear what you're saying about one map dominating in multiple categories, and we've seen that happening over the past few years. It's definitely something to think about.

[J.Edward]

The scale thing, that's a somewhat bad area to get into. I read that the complete opposite.
To me, small scale means a small area, and large scale means a large area.
We need more clarity per category, not less.

As to the whole hand drawn, traditional, etc....
I start some maps traditionally, and "hand drawn" and then move into digital.
How's that going to be categorized?
This is one of the inherent problems with categorizing arty things.

I also feel like we need to focus on the medium, or the kind of map, but not try to do both.
Because we could have any given kind of map done in a variety of mediums.

If we want to include something that doesn't fit a category well, then maybe we just make that a category.
Though even then we are hitting problems, such as Best Hand drawn or traditional.
CP is right about color usually beating black and white.
So, not sure how we would handle BnW, or linework maps, or maybe non color maps... idk.

I know we also don't want to create a ton of categories either.
And also, if we have categories that are exclusive, should the maps that fall in the exclusive category be limited from other categories?
I mean, a traditional regional map can be in a variety of categories, but a similar map done digitally can be in at least one less category.
It basically says we believe traditional to be better or more than the others by giving it a special category.
Or are we saying that it can't compete with digital and needs special treatment?
Just something to think about, from someone who does both.