Felmyr Place Names (WIP)

[Weery]

Hi all,

Maybe this is an unusual step but I thought I'd create a WIP thread explaining some of my thought processes in developing the place names for my world Felmyr, where the city I am currently mapping (Grimmsmouth) is located.

I know that this sort of thing has the potential to become very wordy so I'll try to keep focussed and brief (where possible) and begin with only a high level explanation of the continent names.

Please, this is only a WIP thread so I'm as much threshing out ideas and thought processes as anything else, so if you find it interesting I'm delighted. But if it doesn't go anywhere interesting then at least we'll have gone there together


World Name

• Felmyr

Honestly, I've had this name for years now and I'm still not 100% on it. I'm a great believer that in fiction place names need to communicate something to the viewer/reader beyond just being the noun for that place. Felmyr needs to tell people what kind of world it is and I don't think it does what I want it to.

I think it conjures up Arthurian images, Merlin and the sort. That's not what I want though. I want something that reeks of fantasy but has a distinct whiff of nineteenth century reality, too. Very much a WIP. But for now Femlyr's what I got.


Continents

• Helgarrd
• Rushmore
• Aluine
• Sulaam
• Wu
  

There are a couple more but the above are almost finished and decided upon. I believe they each communicate something to the reader (perhaps to English speakers is what I really mean) that explains something integral to that place before you really learn anything about them.

I'll outline briefly.

Helgarrd is a mountainous, snowy and harsh continent to the north. Pretty obvious right?

Rushmore is a large newfoundland across the Behemoth Sea, recently free of the shackles of colonisation. Obvious again surely?

Aluine is, I feel the most difficult to extract anything from for Western people without an explanation of context. It's the bastion of the imperial civilisations, at the fore of industrial development. It's the location of Midleset (the country where Grimmsmouth sits) and is my proxy for Europe. Again, it's what I got.

Sulaam is a sub-equatorial continent where civilisations first bloomed and thrived. Hot and deserty and harsh.

Wu, the lands to the east (unless you live anywhere other than Aluine of course!). Probably clear what I'm going for here.


So that's all broad strokes stuff. Settled(ish) in my head but still very much part of an overall place names WIP. I think it provides a context to allow readers instantly have some insight into the character of the area. These lands diversify from Earth by having different races, creatures, beliefs, technologies etc. but it is all hopefully in a context that the viewer can relate to quickly.

I hope to post more on this (with some visual aides) to explain how I approach naming locations and features on my maps and beyond. I intend on drilling down into some details (such as street names) that appear on my WIP Grimmsmouth map.

Thanks for sticking with this post. I aimed for brevity. I missed.

Weery.

[Weery]

And here's the world map outline. It does not correspond exactly to what the final version will be but it is generally correct.

Attachment 107098

I haven't indicated the mountain ranges on this map but I came up with it by beginning with a Pangaea type landmass which I moved around and crashed about. So what I'm saying is that the mountain ranges are in there as a result of imaginary tectonics

You can see that there are four remaining landmasses. I haven't named these yet though the one to the east of Wu has a working title of Aro Hai.

Thanks for reading

[Larb]

I definitely know how you feel regarding the world name. For my main fictional world, after years I've still not managed to come up with one and I really hate the placeholder I have been using. I think in the end I will go with something drawn from one of my constructed languages.

What I am wondering about is whether the linguistic layout of your world is supposed to be so very analogous to our own or not (it could be done subconsciously). For example, you have a northern region with a norse-type name, a central one with a frankish-type name, an eastern one with an east-asian type name, and a south-easterly one with an arabic sounding name. And then to the west across the sea, Rushmore conjures up images of the US.

If this is intentional, that is fine - it works. Expect the comparisons though, (and also perhaps comments on the absence of an african continent equivalent proper.) If it's not intentional, it might be worth giving it all another pass.

For example, in my main fictional world, I added a vague east asian sounding land to the east. Then realised what I was doing so just cut the whole thing entirely. But then I didn't intend to go for a world analogous to our own.

Also it's nice to see this subforum getting a little more love.

[Weery]

Hi Larb, thanks so much for commenting

I definitely know how you feel regarding the world name. For my main fictional world, after years I've still not managed to come up with one and I really hate the placeholder I have been using. I think in the end I will go with something drawn from one of my constructed languages.

This is where I'm having the most difficulty, too. I've tried thinking of a proxy word for Earth but I'm not sure I can do it. It's hard to find an alternative that isn't either too fantasty or too sci-fi-esque! Your idea to use one of your con-lang words might be the best method.

The analogous naming of locations is very intentional in my own world, yes. I'm hoping it quickly gives a broad indication of the various regions (along the lines of climate, tech level etc.). My hope is that this grounds the viewer in something they can relate to instantly.

Having said that, the various regions are not analogous to their earth counter parts in anything other than a general sense. For example, in Game of Thrones, Westeros is probably analogous to medieval England and the War of the Roses? But you would never equate the two as there are things like dragons and skin changers and wyldfire etc. But it certainly helps ground (Western) viewers quite quickly. I have the same intention here. I will have to take care to avoid stereotype and hints of racism, that's true.

Expect the comparisons though, (and also perhaps comments on the absence of an african continent equivalent proper.)

The absence of a large Africa proxy is a fair point. As I played around with the tectonics I just broke up that land mass and shoved it into southern Sulaam and the eastern unnamed continent. But there is a much smaller landmass which equates to Africa. Colonisation has begun there, as well as the exportation of slaves to Rushmore largely. The race I have named (shanga which I derived from African tribes), they have only just begun to throw off their shackles in my world. I hope to examine how I've named the various races and creatures in my world at some point too but I'm very glad that you made that initial observation

Thanks again Larb!

[Weery]

Continuing on with the discussion on how I approach place names I'm posting an old first draft of the north-east region of Aluine. This is where I begin to zoom in on regions but I'm using this example to explain how awful my original approach was and what I've learned from my mistakes.

Attachment 107142

This first draft (from many years ago) had several countries and city states. The biggest problem imo are the names. I named every location on this map in one sitting. And it shows.

Zero thought. Zero planning. Zero coherence.

This is completely at odds with how I work now. The names on this map convey almost nothing. Even to me. And I created them! It's a total mess. There are literally only about 2/3 that I would consider using going forward.

What happened is that I sat there forcing my brain to come up with a bunch of different sounding names, probably moving through the alphabet ala Lloyd Christmas guessing Mary Swanson's surname It's weak and meaningless.

I work much slower now and create a narrative for every street (at the very least) or an idea of what I want to communicate to the reader/viewer (at the very most). For example, the entire east coast of this old map is now one country. It's named Midleset and its where Grimmsmouth is. I think the name Midleset conveys something about the nature of that country without me even needing to explain a thing. And it very quickly becomes clear that it's an England proxy when you start to see Victorian type maps etc.

In my next post about this I'll include an updated sketch of this map demonstrating the evolution of the map and some of the place names I've kept. I'll also explain why.

Thanks again for reading

[Azélor]

How to name places?
I remembered this while reading your thread : https://i.imgur.com/t6pPVSy.jpg
Explanation: In a Europa Universalis 4 game, English Mexico, a former English colony, decided to invade Japanese Japan.
Hence the great name of English Mexican Japan. Probably the worst name I've seen in the game so far.

Yes, Westeros = War of the roses, using Irish geography. There are a few in dept analysis on Youtube about it. It goes really deep but as you said, dragons make us forget about it.

The absence of a large Africa proxy is a fair point.

At least you included Atlantis.

[Weery]

How to name places?
I remembered this while reading your thread : https://i.imgur.com/t6pPVSy.jpg

Hi Azélor. This is hilarious, thanks for posting

And I hope my inclusion of 'Atlantis' over Africa will get me off the hook for not including a continent of 1.2 billion people...

[Neyasha]

It's very interesting to read about your naming process. I experienced something similar with some rashly decisions for place names - and then I stuck to them for years although I didn't really like them. I'm now in a process of re-naming a lot of places and yes, these things take a lot of time.

I'm always torn back and forth when it comes to similarities to regions of our world (especially when thinking of Westeros, where I hate and at the same time love the worldbuilding), but sure this helps a lot to give others a feeling for a country without explaining too much.
Now I'm very looking forward to get more information about your world and your process of developing place names!

[Weery]

It's very interesting to read about your naming process. I experienced something similar with some rashly decisions for place names - and then I stuck to them for years although I didn't really like them. I'm now in a process of re-naming a lot of places and yes, these things take a lot of time.

Thanks Neyasha. Yes, and I find taking my time tends to result in something that I still like when I go back to it.

I'm always torn back and forth when it comes to similarities to regions of our world (especially when thinking of Westeros, where I hate and at the same time love the worldbuilding), but sure this helps a lot to give others a feeling for a country without explaining too much.

I know what you mean. I guess I don't want to be so direct as saying 'this is Midleset. You can just think of it as England.' Because that's not the case. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that by using certain place names and layouts on a map I'm trying to suggest something to the viewer that will allow them to make certain assumptions about the nature of the places in this world.

So you might subconsciously assume that Midleset is an industrialised nation because you're looking at a Victorian-esque map of a large city, right? Then from that, you begin to equate life in industrialising cities (as you know from world history) with life in Grimmsmouth. There's probably poverty and nobility, and a history of colonialism and imperialism. I think it's fair to say that these are aspects of our own 19th century industrialisation.

These are the type of high level markers I'm trying to put into the viewer's head. It's my cartography attempt at 'show, don't tell.'

Yet here I am telling

But that's only so people might tell me if I'm hitting well wide of the mark here! Thanks again

[Weery]

Country Names

I don't have many country names yet but here are four at various stages:

Midleset - An imperialist nation at the forefront of scientific discovery and industrialisation.
Clover - Three island former colony of Midleset. It's name is a Midlesettian version of the native language name.
Taggle (WIP) - Former colony of Midleset. Located to the north-east and home to many treacherous mountains and jagged northern coastlines.
Firlinsch - Small mostly inland nation, heavily forested.

On the following map I've indicated Midleset in red:

Attachment 107181

You can see I've overlaid the national grid which I'm using to take map numbers from. I'm working on a tiny little part of SJ (where Grimmsmouth is located).

The name Midleset is derived from one of my most favourite novels about English life, Middlemarch by George Eliot. Her novels conjure up so much of what I think about almost industrial England. I dropped the march and a d and simply added set as in the ending of Somerset. I really like this name and I'm very set on it now

I'll discuss the other country names I have next. Particularly Clover as I have some strong thoughts on how place names should work there (being Irish myself).

Weery