May 2019 Challenge: UnTitled

[Kier]

Not sure I can pull this one off. So throwing this up hoping someone has some suggestions. I can find no way to keep the image quality I need below 100DPI in the grid. Anything smaller is blurry.

The WIP I posted doesnt meet the requirements, over 3MB and 3000x3000 pixels. But anything less is blurry to me. I am afraid I may have to scratch this all and go with a 20x20 map to keep the detail, at which point I will switch to an outside scene, which I was trying to avoid after doing one with the last light challenge(hence the reason the map is Untitled at this point.

### LATEST WIP ###
ProFantasyRedo43000k.jpg

Beyond my dilemma of resolution I am trying something new for me in this map, a little more old school versus in the look. In the past my dungeons have always shown more wall to give dimension, but makes VT games harder to layout I understand, so going with the more drop shadow look. I am still working on the top layer, right now it is just generic at this point as I haven't settled on the look. The lowest level, I am not sure if I want to add the cobble stone,( you can see a touch of it in the upper left hand corner,) or keep the base rock I generated throughout the middle and lower levels.

The idea behind it is to work your way across the map, climb the correct ladder then work your way across the map on the 2nd level. I still have yet to add the ladders, and the bridges spanning the gaps on the 2nd level.

[Kisachik the Wanderer]

Hi Kier. I copied and resized your map and it looks sharp even at 1000x1000 pixels, 72 dpi to me. I know the grid does look lighter at smaller size, but it's still very clear, because the map is composed of boxy shapes with no irregularities. If your inner perfectionist demands a super sharp grid, I'd just make a new one from scratch that would fit whatever size your map is under that required file size.

This looks like an indoor maze of some sort, so you're right, that cobblestone texture doesn't fit there, because it has dead vegetation between the stones that comes from falling pine needles, which give it that lively brown color (or some other type of vegetation possibly). The shadows in the corners are way too dark though, and in some places the top layer walls make them darker on lower layer, which is not what happens in reality. Your shadows seem to fade all the way to 100% black, which you would never observe not only with this type of shadow, but even in a cast shadow where there is just one light source and a low amount of ambient light.

Stylistically shadows are from the world of painting, so I would try replacing them with a black outline, as a drawing element. Or make the shadows much lighter. Or do both. You can mix drawing and painting in an image, but it can be difficult, as they break each other's rules. I do this in my illustrations, so I can tell you from experience that it's a lot of trial and error, and it's quite time consuming. It can be very rewarding as well, if you manage to pull it off.

[Kier]

Hi Kier. I copied and resized your map and it looks sharp even at 1000x1000 pixels, 72 dpi to me. I know the grid does look lighter at smaller size, but it's still very clear, because the map is composed of boxy shapes with no irregularities. If your inner perfectionist demands a super sharp grid, I'd just make a new one from scratch that would fit whatever size your map is under that required file size.

This looks like an indoor maze of some sort, so you're right, that cobblestone texture doesn't fit there, because it has dead vegetation between the stones that comes from falling pine needles, which give it that lively brown color (or some other type of vegetation possibly). The shadows in the corners are way too dark though, and in some places the top layer walls make them darker on lower layer, which is not what happens in reality. Your shadows seem to fade all the way to 100% black, which you would never observe not only with this type of shadow, but even in a cast shadow where there is just one light source and a low amount of ambient light.

Stylistically shadows are from the world of painting, so I would try replacing them with a black outline, as a drawing element. Or make the shadows much lighter. Or do both. You can mix drawing and painting in an image, but it can be difficult, as they break each other's rules. I do this in my illustrations, so I can tell you from experience that it's a lot of trial and error, and it's quite time consuming. It can be very rewarding as well, if you manage to pull it off.

Thanks.

I appreciate the comments. I will post a version later today that meets the requirements. It looks great until you blow it up to get the grid a square inch at least in my eyes(Although they might be going bad). Its not horrible, but I worked so hard getting rock texture exactly where I wanted, I hate to see it blurry.

I don't think this type of map works well in a smaller layout, its supposed to be a maze and doesnt work with 1/3 less tiles. This multi tier concept with all the walls and different heights gives a ton of line of sites to be attacked from a distance allowing enemies to pop in and out creating a long drawn out battle I thought for such a short space. The blocky layout is a throwback to the old block dungeons of old, all those old graph paper maps.

If I can't settle on the resolution, I could do 1 large chamber though to keep the texture alive or move it to an outside theme. If time permits.

Regarding the cobble stones, they havent been worked on for this map yet(just pasted in for proof of concept). I would still have to rebuild them from scratch and layer in the dirt and mold between them that would fit this map. What I do like about them is it separates the bottom layer and middle layers very easily giving 3 different heights.

Yeah, the shadows are always hard to figure out. I may have gone to dark with them in my desire to show the depth of the walls. But a work in progress at anyrate.

Thanks again.

[Kier]

So this map isn't listed as WIP.

But this is the map that meets the requirements as set forth. I am concerned if blown up to 1inch per square it loses too much of its detail.

ProFantasyRedo460dpi2k.jpg

[Kisachik the Wanderer]

I don't see any quality loss here. You might be listening to a voice of inner perfectionist that is picky about the tiniest details. You said you want to separate the layers by showing different textures, maybe simply a dirt floor would work for bottom level, or smoother stone tiles that match the grid? A bit of a hue shift could help. I don't know your workflow so I'm not sure what stage this is at, I wouldn't use textures early on, but maybe that's how you get the difficult part out of the way. I thought I'd join this challenge as well, but textures is where I got stuck after making a sketch.

[Kier]

Thanks Kisachik. Its always great to hear how other people work.

I use Gimp and start with a sketch(generally just the basics, tree here, slope here type of thing) and move on from there, instantly bringing in the textures. In this case I have everything saved in layers so I can pull the texture from the bottom layer and replace it to try something else as needed. I think if I can settle on the top layer, then the bottom will start coming in better for me. I want the bottom heavily mossed and have pools of water as well which is why I was going with cobble stones over dirt, but maybe I will tweak the rock texture from the 2nd layer and make it with more moss, and more debris, misc. noise, pebbles, rocks, etc.

[Kier]

I hope I have to the end of the day to do this, but if not here is the latest.

I am not sure how to change my title: But it is now the Minotaur Maze. Massively original I might add. Assuming I have time I will write a little bit more of what I had been thinking. And I think most of it is where I want it, with the exception of the ground level which needs some more attention and general cleaning up. But all in all I think I am getting there.

### Latest WIP ###
FantasyGrounds.jpg

[Kier]

I think this is it, unless I get inspired more tonight.

So, The Minatour’s Maze, its a straight up old school dungeon crawl. It is my attempt to create a maze/dungeon that maximizes the space for full impact. I originally wanted it to be 3 playable levels but due to space restraints had to pull the plug at 2. A party fights their way through the maze, up the correct ladder to the 2nd level and fights their way across the maze of bridges and walls to the exit. I thought it gave so many great possibilities of close quarters combat to long range fighting(Archers hidden behind walls shooting down, across chasms, etc.) The lower level I created with more slime and water. This could be just because of the dampness, or maybe its tidal or does someone flood it down from above to drown any adventurers. The idea of an impending tide coming forces the party forward and quickly, not allowing a ton of time for mapping, making the maze all that more frustrating. Is it a dungeon? A lower level of a castle? Sewers beneath a city? I thought it played pretty well in several different ways.

This was an interesting challenge for sure. I was interested in seeing if I could make a larger map at smaller memory. I work in 300DPI and stick to 11x17 which is good for me and easily printable. I can double it to a 22x17 but by the end of the map I am paying the price of lag in GIMP with a 7Gig working file. Overall I am pretty pleased with it. I still don’t like the resolution so low, blowing the map to an inch loses all the detail I fought so hard to add. But with that said, I think at 100DPI and enlarged to an inch, she looks great, so maybe I did learn a few things.

I had to fight my tendencies on this map. After creating basic textures, I always build from there, the last layers of textures insuring that nothing is repeated. The problem with seamless textures is they have to be the most basic or the repetitions show, and too basic creates a fake look. But in this case, its a maze, so I needed to create the illusion of repetition, so I didn’t go to crazy on the final layers. I wanted one corridor to look at first glance like the other. I only used a single ladder and bridge, fighting the urge to make each different for the same reason. But in the end I couldn’t resist adding the water, which may have screwed that theory all up in the end, lol. For the same reason I chose to go with a blocky man made look versus my normal realistic cut walls(also a throwback to the old blue/white graph paper maps). In short I wanted it all to look the same but not be the same.

### Latest WIP ###
FantasyGrounds1.jpg