Mapping Middle Earth

[J.Edward]

In Sarithus' Mordor wip thread the idea came up as a friendly challenge to do a Middle Earth map of some sort.

Sapiento had said 'Cool. I was actually playing with the idea of doing a Middle Earth map.'
To which I wrote 'Now that would make for an interesting monthly challenge. Mapping Middle Earth.
I would have to get in on that. '
Max added 'Dang. I was also thinking about mapping something of ME as well Why not going for a friendly "challenge" here, each one would pick up a part of it and map it? Looks like Mordor is already taken '

Which got the ball rolling for me.

Now in all fairness we hijacked Sarithus' thread and have dually apologized for that.
So I started this thread for any further conversation regarding this friendly challenge.

I have too much work to do right now... which is why I just jumped in and started a full map of Middle Earth last night.
Cause I'm dumb like that. I still intend to do some closer in maps of places like Mirkwood or Rivendell, maybe Bree. I always thought Bree would be cool to map. And the Shire. But I just thought doing the whole map would get me familiar with it all again.
I haven't read Tolkien in many years so I'm a bit rusty and dusty on MidE.
I may start a wip for those maps. This thread is just for convo on the subject I guess.

I never really thought about how unrealistic some of Middle Earth's land and rivers are until I started working on this map.
It would be really cool to see how many people would want to join in on this.
We already have some really great ME maps here on the guild already.

[ChickPea]

I had actually been toying with doing something from ME for the current Lite Challenge (map an 'ambush'). I was thinking maybe the Flight to the Ford scene, where Frodo is being chased by the Ringwraiths and is running for the river to get into Elrond's valley. But I haven't gone beyond the 'thinking about it' stage. I'd love to see some fresh takes on Middle Earth though, especially from the Guild's top people! Does anyone read the Silmarillion around here? Some maps from that would be uber cool.

[Mark Oliva]

Does anyone read the Silmarillion around here? Some maps from that would be uber cool.

I couldn't agree more. Remapping the basic terrain of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings over and over again certainly produces maps that are interesting to see, but good maps of the North and other areas described in The Silmarillion and other lesser known Tolkien works certainly would be more interesting and perhaps more useful too.

I was actually thinking about doing Angband... hmmm.

Great! It would be super if you moved on from thinking about to actually doing it. I can't think of a Tolkien map I'd like to see more!

As far as I know, Tolkien never drew a map of the dungeon Angband, but there probably are a number of non-canon private dungeon maps of Melkor's underground fortress. Do any guild members have one?

[J.Edward]

I agree. I am quite fond of the Silmarillion. In fact, that should be the next book I reread.
I love all the ME stories [Hobbit and LOTR] but I enjoyed Silm. more. I think because it's like history and mythology. And it spans a really long time.
It would be fun if at the end of all the ME mapping if all the maps could be put in one thread for easy access.

[ChickPea]

Yeah, the Silmarillion isn't as well liked because of its 'history book' feel, but I love the mythology too. I used to have a poster-style map of Beleriand up on my wall (yeah, geek alert!!) I've no idea what happened to it though.

I think that'd be a great idea to have a 'Middle Earth maps' thread for visitors to the site to browse!

[Sapiento]

In Sarithus' Mordor wip thread the idea came up as a friendly challenge to do a Middle Earth map of some sort.

Sapiento had said 'Cool. I was actually playing with the idea of doing a Middle Earth map.'
To which I wrote 'Now that would make for an interesting monthly challenge. Mapping Middle Earth.
I would have to get in on that. '
Max added 'Dang. I was also thinking about mapping something of ME as well Why not going for a friendly "challenge" here, each one would pick up a part of it and map it? Looks like Mordor is already taken '

Which got the ball rolling for me.

Now in all fairness we hijacked Sarithus' thread and have dually apologized for that.
So I started this thread for any further conversation regarding this friendly challenge.

I have too much work to do right now... which is why I just jumped in and started a full map of Middle Earth last night.
Cause I'm dumb like that. I still intend to do some closer in maps of places like Mirkwood or Rivendell, maybe Bree. I always thought Bree would be cool to map. And the Shire. But I just thought doing the whole map would get me familiar with it all again.
I haven't read Tolkien in many years so I'm a bit rusty and dusty on MidE.
I may start a wip for those maps. This thread is just for convo on the subject I guess.

I never really thought about how unrealistic some of Middle Earth's land and rivers are until I started working on this map.
It would be really cool to see how many people would want to join in on this.
We already have some really great ME maps here on the guild already.

I started a full map of Middle Earth this morning, too. I have mainly the same problem that I haven't read LOTR in years, but the Tolkien map should be a good starting point.

[Chick]

I read TH and LoTR at least once a year, and the Silmarillion every couple years. I love them all, as well as some of the more obscure work that was published after JRRT's death.

Now I don't want to throw cold water on anything, but there are SO many ME maps around, it's probably the most mapped and remapped fantasy land ever invented. If I do this, I'd want to do something that hasn't already been done 63 million times (the number of hits on a search for "Map of Middle Earth"), like choose a lesser known region not already mapped to death, and do that one.

[Gamerprinter]

While I too have read LotR, 3 times in my life, and of course watched most of the recent movies, for some strange reason (that I can't really explain), I've never had the urge to recreate any previously published map. I appreciate Tolkien's works, and the works of those inspired by his creation. I've even emulated Tolkien's style in at least one map of mine. Still, for me, I much prefer that every map I create is something completely from my imagination. The only time I do maps for publications not of my own, are when I do professional commissions for both RPG and video game strategy guide maps. In addition to the fact that I'm getting paid to create a maps for a specific publication, satisfying my own need is accomplished because the world's I map for commission haven't been created before - much of those professional map commissions are largely products of my imagination, framed within the needs of the publication. Constrained by the rough draft provided by the authors, enhanced by the written descriptions by the author of each room in a structure or the geography of their intended worlds - the rest of my efforts fall under artistic license, with my own design contributions to the commission.

When not doing commissions, the maps I create I prefer to only develop them from my own imagination. While movies and books certainly inspire ideas for my own maps, I cannot point to a single privately created map that I've done over the past 7 years that was my version of some previously created map for any of the publications that inspire my work. I'm just not interested in doing that, ever. Understand that I do appreciate others' needs to do that and enjoy what they create from that need - its just a need I don't have.

Related to my point of view, some of my maps have inspired me to publish my own game settings - my published Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game), for example. I guess the way I look at any map I create is that there should be a potential of publishing every map. If a map belongs to some existing intellectual property (such as a map of Middle Earth), I cannot arbitrarily publish it without permission or license to do so (a task I don't really want to have to do to get a map of mine easily published). If a work is completely my own, I can freely do whatever I want to do, including: using a map to inspire me to write an RPG adventure or game setting, providing a generic solution to needed maps for private games (sold to the general public), or give away for some kind of PR.

Consider that several of my Map Challenge maps (including maps from challenges I've won) I've actually published or still intend to publish. The Assassin's Lair map was the cornerstone of Assassin's Amulet, a publication by myself, Johnn Four and Mike Bourke for use with D&D 3x and PF. I intend to publish my Superstition Valley map (my first challenge map win) someday next year, as well as the map objects from that map to be released as a hand-drawn map object set, sometime this year. There are two challenge maps that I intended for publication even as I was creating them during the challenge period, though they weren't published at the time, I still might.

In the end, if I cannot call a given map creation, my own complete intellectual property to do what I want, I won't do it. I'll only create one if someone else pays me to do it.

[J.Edward]

ChickPea - there are a lot of areas from Silm. that could done. There's a lot of untapped potential there.
Yes Sap, I may have to browse back over some points myself.
chick - I do agree. I can't say just what motivated me to want to do it. But I've started now so it's on.
I think there's still a lot of potential for maps. Especially if you are using your own vision to create a place.
It doesn't have to be absolutely literal and fully canonical.

GP - I actually fully understand and somewhat agree with you.
This is probably one of the first times I am working on a map that is not my own conception, excluding paid work.
Like I said to chick, I'm not sure just what motivated me to do it. Maybe it was just being in the moment. Who knows.
It isn't something I'm likely to do often given my agreement with you on your point.
But I think it could prove to be a fun challenge.

edit - I did want to add this. I'm glad that people sometimes redo an existing map that was not their original conception.
Sometimes they do it better than the original. Here I'm thinking of Sapiento's Conan-Hyboria map. It's a beautiful piece of work that I'm glad he did. So there's still much value in doing a new take on an older concept.

[- Max -]

I can't say just what motivated me to want to do it. But I've started now so it's on.

And so did I

I did want to add this. I'm glad that people sometimes redo an existing map that was not their original conception.
Sometimes they do it better than the original. Here I'm thinking of Sapiento's Conan-Hyboria map. It's a beautiful piece of work that I'm glad he did. So there's still much value in doing a new take on an older concept.

I completely agree. Redoing a map from someone's else universe isn't that easy it seems at the first glance but it's quite a (fun) challenging stuff. I remember having lots of fun making map of Howard's Hyboria (and seems like Sapiento had to, looking at the beautiful work he's done on it), Leiber's Nehwon or ASOIAF world.