Using Campaign Cartographer elements with other programs

[John Wommer]

Hi. New member, so I don't know if this has been discussed before or not. While I feel CC is a great resource for those with little or no cart experience, it is somewhat more convoluted then needs be - just sayin'.
Few years ago I was working some maps in Corel (my dinosaur of choice) and was wishing I had the CC elements to work with. I little tinkering and it was done. How?
Place all elements form a set on a blank page "map". Save as png file.
Open file in CorelDraw, group & massage (as necessary) each individual piece, and viola! Individual elements you can then use in Corel. Helps to make some cooler looking maps with smoother flow, though you are still technically using CC resources so best for home use maps to not break copyright.
I hope to be posting some of teh ones I made soon as I get my 5 posts in and can access with the "big kids".

Hope this helps.

[waldronate]

This is excellent advice for the older and vector-only symbols. Most of the modern symbols (like those from the annuals), though, are already in the form of PNG files with transparency defined. You should be able to just open the individual PNG files stored in the "Symbols" directory in the CC3 install directory (CC3+ puts them in the ProgramData\ProFantasy\CC3Plus\Symbols directory, but the idea is the same).

[Mark Oliva]

Individual elements you can then use in Corel. Helps to make some cooler looking maps with smoother flow, though you are still technically using CC resources so best for home use maps to not break copyright.

When using ProFantasy's symbols in other software and distributing the maps made, there is a key point in the PF license model that one must keep in mind. The symbols themselves may not be embedded in the distributed map.

[waldronate]

When using ProFantasy's symbols in other software and distributing the maps made, there is a key point in the PF license model that one must keep in mind. The symbols themselves may not be embedded in the distributed map.

The intent of this point, btw, is to make it impossible for unlicensed use of the symbols by just opening a drawing and copying the symbols into a new drawing. ProFantasy has also been pretty clear that just making a contact sheet of a symbol set (one of each symbol on a drawing) or dungeon marker set that's one symbol per marker is also not acceptable use. As long as the final distribution product is something like a JPEG, PNG, or locked PDF, ProFantasy doesn't seem to have a problem with it; if you're going to distribute other program document files (e.g. FM8, Corel, Photoshop, etc.), you might want to check with ProFantasy first.

[Chick]

I'm still not very clear on this distinction. Can someone please just say it in plain English? If I have a CC3 license but I use a CC3 building icon from a CC .png file on a map that I made with Photoshop, is that ok for a commercial purpose?

[Mark Oliva]

Can someone please just say it in plain English?

Yes.

That's plain enough, but the guild doesn't acccept messages that are that short, so here's a second superfluous sentence.

[Chick]

LOL Thank you, Mark. And thank you for making me laugh this early in the morning

[Mark Oliva]

Ja mei! I've been reminded by private E-Mail that my plain and simple answer was a bit too plain and simple. That's true, unfortunately.

If you make a map and distribute it as a flat map (i.e. JPG, PNG, BMP, etc.) my answer, Yes, is correct. If you make a map with a program other than CC3 and distribute it in its native format (i.e. a GIMP map as a GIMP file, a PhotoShop map as a PhotoShop file) and that program carries the map as a separate, extractable object, you are in violation of ProFantasy's license.

Now, you may wonder what that's all about. ProFantasy uses this method in an attempt to protect its symbols from pirates, but it also does a lot to make them available to users of other programs. If, for instance, you have Fractal Mapper (TM) 8 or Dundjinni (TM) installed on your computer, and you then install ProFantasy programs, they automatically will install all of their symbols in the proper FM8 or Dundjinni folders and menus as well.

However, even in this case, one has to be careful in distributing the maps one makes with these programs. If one uses the cartographic programs to export the end results as flat maps (JPG, PNG, BMP, etc.), there's no problem. That's legal. That's also what the majority of RPG cartographers do.

But then there are wierdos like the three of us in the Vintyri (TM) Project. We make our maps with FM8 and also make our maps available in FM8's native FMP file format. That's part of our open source concept. Anyone can download our maps and edit or modify them to their hearts' content. However, that's not legally possible with FM8 maps that use CC3, CD3, DD3 and/or CA3 symbols and/or fills. If I leave FM8's "noembed" switch turned on, people who don't have the ProFantasy installed symbols that we might have used in our maps would see only blank spaces at the positions where we placed them. That wouldn't happen if we turned FM8's "noembed" switch off, because then the ProFantasy symbols would be embedded in our maps - in violation of the ProFantasy license.

That's what this embedding thing is about. CC3 does not include the symbols (objects) or fill textures that are used in a map in the map file itself. It instead uses references to the hard drive or SSD drive address on the mapper's computer where the symbols are installed, and each time a CC3 map is called up on the screen, CC3 pulls the symbol and texture images up anew into the map from the hard drive or SSD drive. CC3 is not even able to embed objects and textures in a CC3 map. As a result, if one makes a CC3 map and distributes it in the native FCW file format, other CC3 users who open the map will see the objects and textures used only if they have all of these objects and textures installed in exactly the same folders at exactly the same locations as the cartographer did. If any objects or textures are missing, CC3 will show only a box with a red X at the locations where they were placed.

With FM8, one can turn the "noembed" switch on and off as one pleases for each symbol group. But the only legal output with an FM8 map would be with the switch turned on or with an exported flat map.

Finally, some who read this might wonder if I know what I'm talking about or how I know this, etc. When ProFantasy first announced the release of its CC3 products with FM8 and Dundjinni symbol and fill installations, I read the license and came personally to the conclusion that the license prohibits embedding. I then asked our attorney for an opinion, and his conclusion was the same. Finally, to be certain, I asked ProFantasy. I have a written confirmation from Ralf Schemmann of ProFantasy Ltd. that the license does indeed prohibit embedding of its fills (textures) and symbols (objects).

Sorry. It's no longer so simple, but I hope the English still is plain.

As my avatar, Groucho Marx, sang some 80 years ago:

Hello! I must be going. I came to say, I cannot stay, I must be going.

[Chick]

Thank you again, Mark. This time I think the "embedded" idea finally got through to me what it means. I really appreciate your non-legalese explanation

[ProFantasy]

A very simple way to think of this is the analogy with fonts - that is, you can create a document in Word and distribute it, but you can't distribute the fonts you need to view it correctly - the third party has to have this. Likewise, you can export the Word document as a PDF and distribute that and it will look right, and that's fine as the font is not useable.