4e Core Rulebooks

[NeonKnight]

So I got a hold of some PDFs of the upcoming 4e rulebooks (Yes they are likely 'illegal' no I was not the one who found them, YES I still plan on paying cash for the REAL things, as them DM I like having a copy on my PC and if I can get a week ahead of time to read the books all the better).

So, with my quick perusal what can I say about the new game?

I like it. It looks a lot cleaner, and looks a lot smoother to play. As an example, Wizards (my favorite character), has everything needed to play a Wizard PC in the Wizard section of the Player's Book.

Example: All Wizard spells, special abilities, etc is in the wizard section. Also, now the spells (either a daily or encounter 'power') are listed as to the level you need to be to cast it, not the level of the spell. Example, Fireball in previous editions was a Level 3 spell that you needed to be level 5 to cast. very difficult at time to remember all that. In the new game Fireball is now a Level 5 power (meaning you get it at level 5, pretty nifty eh?).

The game also now allows for PCs to play towards a goal (example being Demigodhood at level 31). This does not mean at level 31 you now are a god and continue to play. Nope, quite the contrary. Your character achieves your ultimate goal, and is then retired from play.

Classes are better balanced against each other, and each class has a couple of different roles assigned to the them. Example: A character is either a Controller, Artillery, Soldier etc. This means (again the wizard), is best as either a controller or Artillery. A controller means that have abilities to control the battlefield and opponents, throwing up Flaming walls, moving your opponents, holding opponents in place etc. Or they could be artillery, throwing massive damage around etc.

On the DM's side, one of the best additions to the game is the Minion ability. Some monsters have assiting monsters called minions. Minions are almost as strong as the main monsters but with one slight change: They only have 1 HP. You read that right a Level 13 Minion has only a single HP You hit them, and they die. But, as a minion, they take no damage on a missed attack (so abilites that do X damage on a miss have no effect on minions). This means you can now have those grand cinematic battles where the PCs are fighting the Zombie lord (as an example) and his undead horde. The undead horde is a real threat, but the PCs can cut through like a hot knife trough butter.

Very cool.

There are lost more I can say about the game, but all I can say, is I am going to be a very very giddy little boy come Friday when I plunk down my big bucks (I still have no idea what the cost will be to me, but I suspect something like $100) and get my in the 'flesh' (so to speak) books for real.
So much love!

[RPMiller]

Thanks for the review NK. Hopefully someone in my face to face group will take a stab at running the system. I honestly have little desire to buy the books currently as I rarely play D&D, but it would be worth taking a look at it. I would try playing a session over MapTool, but I am afraid I would have way too many questions and would ruin the session for others.

[cdenham]

Thanks for the review.

For those interested, Amazon is having a pre-order sale going on where you get the 3 core books, DM Guide, PH, and MM as a boxed set for $57.72. Great buy! It is going to normally retail for about $105.

Here is a link... LINK

[loogie]

ugh dnd...

i know its the most popular system out there, but its all a little bland for my taste... i find dnd to be to super powered and very directional... a lot like world of warcraft, but in the rping sense (eg.. if you a cleric, your job is to heal. you'll rarely get the chance to do anything else... and if your like me, and would like to make a character that isn't just a healer... your fellow companions complain for hours about how they think you should be healing them). I also prefer my battles to be a bit more then races to 0 hp. the system i play now has bleeding, broken bones, stun, penalties, all of which are in a series of tables that every hit uses... so it helps describe how combat is going much more...

that being said.. dnd is better then nothing, and i find that it fits what many people like playing, and if so, all power too ya. i'm a bit more hardcore in my rping, and hack and slash isn't all i want out of a game... just like to tell people that there are more options out there... (i had no idea there were good options out there till my friends turned me on to iron crown enterprises, now i'm pretty stuck on their systems)

[cdenham]

I pretty much agree with you, loogie. LOTS of other great RPG's out there. In my opinion, WOTC pretty much killed the role playing in D&D and turned it into a number crunch fest. I was really hoping 4.0 would cure that but with 1 hp minions it doesn't sound like it.

I love the openness of the the original D&D version. Just a basic set of guidelines, a DM's opinion, and good imagination.

[NeonKnight]

Well Loogie, in 4e D&D you don't really need a cleric as a healer. everyone can heal themselves either through Healing Surges, Second Winds, or simply short or extended rest periods. Example, your front line fighter is taking a beating? Instead of attacking one round you take a second wind and regain a certain amount of HP.

Conversely, the Cleric has nifty abilities to use while in a fight to allow their allies to heal damage. example, Your Cleric whomps a badguy and your ally gains a healing as the cleric channels the healing.

So, gone is the cleric being the battlefield medic who's sole job is to run around patching the wounds of their allies, rather they are a pivotal part of any band of adventurers who are good in a fight but can assist an ally stay healthy a little longer.

[NeonKnight]

I pretty much agree with you, loogie. LOTS of other great RPG's out there. In my opinion, WOTC pretty much killed the role playing in D&D and turned it into a number crunch fest. I was really hoping 4.0 would cure that but with 1 hp minions it doesn't sound like it.

I love the openness of the the original D&D version. Just a basic set of guidelines, a DM's opinion, and good imagination.

I actually like the minions. I think of them as the standard sort of generic adversary you see in a James Bond Movie, or Stormtrooper #43 in Star Wars. You know the guy, the one the hero in the movie merely fires a shot in their general direction and they die. That is the minion's purpose to be a minor speed bump.

[Badger]

ugh dnd...

i know its the most popular system out there, but its all a little bland for my taste... i find dnd to be to super powered and very directional... a lot like world of warcraft, but in the rping sense (eg.. if you a cleric, your job is to heal. you'll rarely get the chance to do anything else... and if your like me, and would like to make a character that isn't just a healer... your fellow companions complain for hours about how they think you should be healing them). I also prefer my battles to be a bit more then races to 0 hp. the system i play now has bleeding, broken bones, stun, penalties, all of which are in a series of tables that every hit uses... so it helps describe how combat is going much more...

that being said.. dnd is better then nothing, and i find that it fits what many people like playing, and if so, all power too ya. i'm a bit more hardcore in my rping, and hack and slash isn't all i want out of a game... just like to tell people that there are more options out there... (i had no idea there were good options out there till my friends turned me on to iron crown enterprises, now i'm pretty stuck on their systems)

loog... I've been playing d&d for almost 27 years... as for overpowered and directional.. it's all on taste and style and how you prefer to play.. you can make it as superpowered munchkin as you want... or as lowpowered and almost non-magical .... as for character's roles... Cleric is one of my favorite classes to play (as in I've probably had more clerics as characters) and none of them would be considered some mobile healer that spends majority of time healing... just ask my favorite PC cleric "Fist of Kord" .... he definitely does not spend a whole lot of time healing ... but dealing .. damage. I do agree that the HP system does have its drawbacks... I don't see a race for 0 hp necessarily, but I do get a lot of HP counting .... (players tracking the damage they do to enemy's to gage when they feel that enemy should be dead or dying.)

My experience with hit charts (D&D had its own version in 2e with Combat and Tactics) like ROLLmaster and Hackmaster and various other systems.... tends to bog down combat to a crawl as varioius charts are consulted and referred to and multiple rolls are needed to find out who hit where when and what happens to what degree.... I prefer (as a DM) to describe the action as we play freestyle.... its worked for the past 23 odd years with minimal complaint... but that of course is a matter of taste and style ...

I've played numerous systems, in various genre's of fantasy, sci-fi and horror... tho I prefer fantasy overall. D&D (in the beginning when we were kids and starting out it was all about killing, and power and treasure... those were fun days too, no doubt) has provided me with a rich and full world of history and RP ... mostly due to sticking with a RP first attitude ... We prefer to ROLE than ROLL .... for the longest time, the dungeon (the nickname of the room we use for playing) had a banner across the wall that read "If the story ever conflicts with the rules, the story should always win." ... just something to think about ... the system (which ever one you are playing) shouldn't define the story .. the system is designed to cover mechanics of game play ... a structure for which to base and define how the world works... it should never define how the story and RPing should go .... if it did... you might as well read off a "Choose your own Adventure" novel to your players...

that's just my opinion tho

[Brazenwood]

ugh dnd...

i know its the most popular system out there, but its all a little bland for my taste... i find dnd to be to super powered and very directional... a lot like world of warcraft, but in the rping sense (eg.. if you a cleric, your job is to heal. you'll rarely get the chance to do anything else... and if your like me, and would like to make a character that isn't just a healer... your fellow companions complain for hours about how they think you should be healing them). I also prefer my battles to be a bit more then races to 0 hp. the system i play now has bleeding, broken bones, stun, penalties, all of which are in a series of tables that every hit uses... so it helps describe how combat is going much more...

that being said.. dnd is better then nothing, and i find that it fits what many people like playing, and if so, all power too ya. i'm a bit more hardcore in my rping, and hack and slash isn't all i want out of a game... just like to tell people that there are more options out there... (i had no idea there were good options out there till my friends turned me on to iron crown enterprises, now i'm pretty stuck on their systems)

I too got a hold of the new books via pdf, and they are amazing. Every Character gets to do three actions like a three act play during his turn, a standard action, a move action, and then a minor action. Clerics and Warlords do their healing (inspire healing surges) during their minor actions, so they don't just have to be the healer anymore, which is cool.

The game also introduced stages of woundedness, when you get to half your hitpoints you are "bloodied" which has it's own set of ramifications both positive and negative.

I love the new Warlord. My first character I just made yesterday was a Half-Elf Warlord, and I used my first feat to multiclass as a Warlock to gain the Star Pact power Dire Radiance (I can basically bring down the astrolgoy star power in the midst of battle), also as a Half Elf you get to be a dilatante which means you can choose another's classes At will powers and make it into a per encounter power for you. I chose another from the Warlock their Eyebite power which is like a mini mind blast and vanish for one round to the target you mindblasted! Then, also at first level you get your three main class features, plus two At will class powers, one encounter power, and one daily power. And these powers are not necessarily spells. For instance the warrior types have the martial power source, so their powers are called Exploits, like combat tricks, tactics, stunts. So it's cool. The Warlord is a master of getting everyone in position and gaining combat advantage through flanking. He is great at inspiring others to to better to, but only if he can kick arse in the first place. My daily power is Lead the Attack, which you would use against a boss character, cause if you hit you get tripple weapon damage and your allies are then +4 (I have a high Int and tactical presence) against the same target. At level two I'm going to get my first utility exploit which for me will be Knight's Move, which allows me to point and give my move action to an ally as a free action, more positioning.

The cool thing about the game (even though it does seem like the battle rules are a glorified polished miniatures game) is that I can't wait to see how a party with all these weird and cool abilities learns to use them in concert...wow! It's going to make for some amazing combinations and team tactics for sure, something like no game has ever had before. And the actual role-playing, well the quality of that depends on the quality of the DM (his running of NPCs and adventure design) and the quality of the players to actually be involved, so that is system nuetral as far as I am concerned.

And the new Skill Challenges are amazing for facilitating role playing too. The Dm can design Skill Challenges that have you making multiple rolls over time to gradually build success before failure strikes, should be great fun!

Overall, from reading the books for three days now, I'm so psyched to play, and the new system has me buying a new computer and setting up CC3 to map the local campaign area, and it's so exciting again!

Can't wait to play with my table top group, but also can't wait to play online with people like you through the new Virtual 3D game table with chat!

Woo Hoo!

[MadLetter]

I like it. It looks a lot cleaner, and looks a lot smoother to play. As an example, Wizards (my favorite character), has everything needed to play a Wizard PC in the Wizard section of the Player's Book.

Most wizard players moan and cry all the time now, because they can no longer insta-gib any encounter. I like the new wizard!

The game also now allows for PCs to play towards a goal (example being Demigodhood at level 31). This does not mean at level 31 you now are a god and continue to play. Nope, quite the contrary. Your character achieves your ultimate goal, and is then retired from play.

Only a nitpick here, it's level 30 and stop (no real L31, I think). I created about six or seven Epic Destinies on my own already!

Classes are better balanced against each other, and each class has a couple of different roles assigned to the them. Example: A character is either a Controller, Artillery, Soldier etc. This means (again the wizard), is best as either a controller or Artillery. A controller means that have abilities to control the battlefield and opponents, throwing up Flaming walls, moving your opponents, holding opponents in place etc. Or they could be artillery, throwing massive damage around etc.

One major gripe here!
The classes fall into one of four "roles": Controller, Striker, Leader, Defender.
The roles you named, are monster-roles, which define their abilities and place in combat.

There are lost more I can say about the game, but all I can say, is I am going to be a very very giddy little boy come Friday when I plunk down my big bucks (I still have no idea what the cost will be to me, but I suspect something like $100) and get my in the 'flesh' (so to speak) books for real.
So much love!

Amazon sells them for 55$ by now


A few notes from my side (over 14 years of D&D already under my belt, just so you know I'm not new ;] )

The game runs smoother (played four sessions already with D&D XP rules and characters) and somewhat better, I believe. It's way more balanced and makes way more fun. The power you get mean fun and you get a load of excellenct descriptions if your players are inclined to it (mine are, happy times!).

The whole mechanics are way better I think!

All in all I just want to add: superb ruleset!


Regarding loogies post:
The Number-Crunching is far less probelamatic than in 3.5, I think. As everything is more streamlined, you can get straight to the action of an encounter, be it social, combat or a skill-challenge.

Less "what spells do I pick today", which can result in down-time en masse whilst a player picks his spells, and more time to play and describe whats going on.

On a sidenote: I play Shadowrun, Exalted and WoD myself, so I'm not stuck in D&D Nonetheless it's one of the best Fantasy Games, I believe... if it's too bland: make your own world and bring colour into it. I'm doing that right now!


A last sidenote... for those who are interested in homebrewing stuff for 4th Edition, I add the link to a tool I am working on with a pal of mine: LINK