Advice for a beginner

[Verrapthra]

I've been reading the site, the stickies and the conversations about different software. I've gathered that no matter which way I go I'll be faced with a plethora of learning curves. I have no previous experience with map making software or any kind of photo editing software, up until now I've always done hand drawn maps and went as far and creating a homemade prototype globe of my world.

With that on the table, I've looked at what there is in terms of software, what it costs and its associated learning curves. What I'd like to know is what experienced map makers think would be my best course of action.

I see many pros use Photoshop and Illustrator, I know those are pricy and I've also read that GIMP and Inkscape are free open source versions, if you will. I understand the learning curve would be steep to make nice maps of fictitious places such as the ones I find here made by the gifted cartographer's guild members, but how much steeper than CC3?

I've read many glowing reviews on Campaign Cartographer 3 and its addons, I've reviewed which ones I'd want and would use (CC3 / FT3 / CD3) but the issues I'd like opinions on are the following:

Will all maps made in CC3 and its associated addons be glaringly CC3-like? Will they lack a feeling of uniqueness?

Would you feel confident distributing maps for a professional project with CC3?

...and lastly

How much steeper would the learning curve for free programs like Wilbur Inkscape and GIMP than CC3 be for making quality maps?

I realize that this is always subject to the individual's motivation and capacity to learn, but for a layman like me, would you pros recommend either? I'm not sure what I'm getting myself into otherwise.

Thank you so much for your time!

[Chashio]

I haven't used CC so I can't give you any help with that, but I did want to ask you what sort of maps you want to make, and how you think you would want to approach them workflow-wise, as well as what tools and abilities you would most likely need/want/could live without. Those answers might get you a bit closer to figuring it out.

Also, I would love to see the maps and globe you've already done, if you ever want to share them.

[Wired]

I haven't used CC so I can't give you any help with that, but I did want to ask you what sort of maps you want to make, and how you think you would want to approach them workflow-wise, as well as what tools and abilities you would most likely need/want/could live without. Those answers might get you a bit closer to figuring it out.

Yes, good points.

[Wired]

I see many pros use Photoshop and Illustrator, I know those are pricy and I've also read that GIMP and Inkscape are free open source versions, if you will. I understand the learning curve would be steep to make nice maps of fictitious places such as the ones I find here made by the gifted cartographer's guild members, but how much steeper than CC3?

The most accurate estimate anyone can give you is "depends". I know, not what you're looking for, and I apologize. Thing is, even if you use GIMP or Photoshop there are different levels of complexity ahead of you: you can make use of the many excellent brush sets available here and on DeviantArt to aid you in your map-making (I would advise as much if you do not own a graphics tablet), or you can draw them completely by hand (will often take more time, but the result will most likely be more fulfilling and unique). Either way it will take a good deal of trial and error, and time.

I've read many glowing reviews on Campaign Cartographer 3 and its addons, I've reviewed which ones I'd want and would use (CC3 / FT3 / CD3) but the issues I'd like opinions on are the following:

Will all maps made in CC3 and its associated addons be glaringly CC3-like? Will they lack a feeling of uniqueness?

They probably will. Don't get me wrong: CC3 and its many add-ons offer a great deal of variety and functions, especially if you don't want to go into the nitty-gritty of programs like GIMP. But you do have to understand that you'll be working with an ultimately limited amount of presets.

Would you feel confident distributing maps for a professional project with CC3?

Does CC3's license even allow for that?^^

...and lastly

How much steeper would the learning curve for free programs like Wilbur Inkscape and GIMP than CC3 be for making quality maps?

Depends what you see as a quality map. If you're willing to do trial and error and invest a good deal of time you can create good maps in a few months.

[Chick]

Hi Verrapthra, welcome to the Guild!

The learning curve is not nearly as bad you make it sound. Get Photoshop if you can afford it, and GIMP if you need something free. Then start with the great tutorial in the sticky section of Tutorials, called Quickstart Guide to Fantasy Mapping: http://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=4276

From there, go to Hand Drawn Mapping for the Artistically Challenged: http://www.cartographersguild.com/sh...ad.php?t=10655

Once you have completed those two tutorials, you'll be well on your way!!

[johnvanvliet]

i am a bit of a odd ball around here so...

with the exception of "Wilbur" ALL the software i use is under the GPL ( or like ) free software license
The software is all opensource ( except for wilbur)

and runs on most Operating systems
Linux
BSD
Apple
Microsoft

the cost of the Operating system on my computer
( OpenSUSE 13.2 and ScientificLinux 6.6) - $0
the cost of Gimp 2.9 DEVELOPMENT - $0
for Inkscape $0
for Nip2/vips - $0
Blender -3d software - $0
for Gmic - $0
For NASA/USGS ISIS3 - $0
For GDAL - $0
and so on ....
see a pattern here

now i am also NOT a average computer user and i LIKE hacking software and have been building programs for years
so for a lot of things i am past the EARLY part of the "learning curve"

basically things just DO TAKE TIME to learn -- so, be patient

The Gimp has a LOT!!! of guides the older ones really will not work with the CURRENT stable version 2.8.14
but there are still A LOT from guides on web sites to youtube vids

this one from 2012 is good
http://www.tutorialgeek.net/2012/11/...otos-from.html
( ps WARNING they are using the "one windows to rule them all - GimpShop look )

this vid using Gmic ( a plugin and stand alone program ) with Gimp to colorize a image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37h8mlI-NCI


you can take from each something and use it DIFFERENTLY

for example :
colorizing a black and white OLD photo
applies to colorizing a map ALSO


in colorizing a photo you use LAYERS
you also use these in making a map or a texture for a 3d rendering


now Gimp can handle adding text to things -- for small things it is good

but
Inkscape can do it BETTER but for just a few words gimp would be faster

[Verrapthra]

Thank you all for your informative advice and opinions! I very much appreciate it. To add to my expectations, I wanted to map a planet of my creating. When I saw the detail fractal terrains can produce and the realism of water levels and mountains and so on I was convinced that was the way I wanted to go. My plan is to do a globe, continental maps, regional maps and eventually some city maps.

My biggest preoccupation was with how to create a genuine planet/world with realistic measurements such as altitudes and water levels. From there I wanted to zoom into areas/regions and map them out systematically as I progress through the process.

I hope that's of some help and again thank you all in advance for this wonderful help, I'm truly wandering around in the dark with all this.

[Midgardsormr]

…up until now I've always done hand drawn maps and went as far and creating a homemade prototype globe of my world.

I see many pros use Photoshop and Illustrator, I know those are pricy and I've also read that GIMP and Inkscape are free open source versions, if you will. I understand the learning curve would be steep to make nice maps of fictitious places such as the ones I find here made by the gifted cartographer's guild members, but how much steeper than CC3?

If you're already fairly good and hand-drawing, my advice would be to spend your budget on a tablet and use free software such as the Gimp. It does take a little bit of hand-eye practice to get used to drawing your line "elsewhere," but once you've put in that time you will likely find it to be quite comfortable. I use a tablet in almost all of my computer work these days. You can get a Wacom for around $80 - $100 these days, which is less than you'd spend on CC3 + FT3 + CD3 + Annual.

Will all maps made in CC3 and its associated addons be glaringly CC3-like? Will they lack a feeling of uniqueness?

Base CC3 does have a few very recognizable looks that tend to make maps very similar. Your first few maps will almost certainly give away your software choice. That said, it is a fully-featured CAD program capable of an infinite variety of styles. Take a look through the Cartographer's Annual at Profantasy.com to see a huge number of different styles that come pre-made for you. You can get a similar amount of diversity making new styles yourself if you take the time to do so.

Would you feel confident distributing maps for a professional project with CC3?

As long as they were up to my standards of quality, absolutely.

How much steeper would the learning curve for free programs like Wilbur Inkscape and GIMP than CC3 be for making quality maps?

In my opinion, CC3's learning curve is rougher than Inkscape or Gimp. Wilbur's a different beast; it feels more like an engineer's tool than an artist's tool, so it can take some time to learn if you don't already have that kind of mindset.

Does CC3's license even allow for that?^^ (Distributing maps made with the software for commercial gain)

Yes. Profantasy's license permits maps made with the software and their symbols to be sold or distributed. They only restrict distribution of the symbol sets themselves. So you can't sell the .fcw source file, which contains extractable artwork, but you can definitely sell a png or jpeg image of your maps.

Thank you all for your informative advice and opinions! I very much appreciate it. To add to my expectations, I wanted to map a planet of my creating. When I saw the detail fractal terrains can produce and the realism of water levels and mountains and so on I was convinced that was the way I wanted to go. My plan is to do a globe, continental maps, regional maps and eventually some city maps.

Fractal Terrains is very good at making random worlds from scratch. It's not so hot at guided creation, though. If you have a particular landform you want to create, FT is probably not the tool to use. It can be done, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

[Verrapthra]

A little update, I went the free path and downloaded GIMP Inkscape and Wilbur. I gotta say, damn is Wilbur a complicated program! I've been through all the available tutorials on the fracterra site; fun with Wilbur volumes 1-6, and have learned a great deal already, though some skills just aren't syncing up for me, for example I'm struggling with the tessellation tool but starting to get a firmer grasp on many of the other aspects of Wilbur. Inkscape has had some really great tutorials online (youtube!) so I can see great potential for using the vector based program for icon and logo design, I wanted to replicate my world calendar wheels with Inkscape so we'll see how that goes. Honestly I've been intimidated by GIMP despite the variety of tutorials readily available. I'm going to crawl through the wonderful guides posted in this thread to get my bearings on GIMP.

All in all, I feel that once I have gotten a better feel for these three programs I'll be able to do my own thing.

I've come to realize through this process that I can use Wilbur to build my planet, I've been learning the aspects of mapping landforms to a sphere and all kinds of fun stuff. I can use Inkscape to make all the bases for logos, designs and icons and GIMP will give me the power to manipulate all these creations.

For what its worth, the last thing I was learning in Wilbur was a black and white outline of my continents made in GIMP translated well into Wilbur and gave my continental dispersion that I wanted, I just have to learn more and practice more, I'm still SUCH a n00b at this!

To summarize, I'm making progress finally and I have this site and you all to thank for it.

Thanks guys, I look forward to showing you all something that doesn't suck down the line!

[Ilgoth]

I think it wasn't answered here; yes you are allowed to use your CC3 maps in commercial projects. That is what they answered to me, when I emailed about it last April.