lost in thought

[Jaekaido]

i have an idea for a large city, but i can not for the life of me think of the different things that should be in it. the city is a utopia kinda in an fantasy setting, and while i know the general layout of the city there are things that i am missing and i think of what they are. i have the city government buildings, houses, inns, taverns, a temple (though i might get rid of it for the sake of order in the city), restaurants, bakeries and other food shops, general goods stores, magic item shops and a wood mill (that the citizens use to build things in their craft). i know that there should be other things for a large city but i can't think of any. any help would be very helpful. just so everyone who is reading this knows i am still new to making maps especially city maps.

[Tonnichiwa]

Sounds like the town needs a blacksmith, if there is a river going through the town, maybe a ferry boat navigator's cottage, horse stables, a library, and if it is a fantasy city you might need some wizards towers, maybe a port dock, you might even need some aerial port towers to accommodate flying ships. You may need grain storage houses, a graveyard with a mausoleum. Some guild houses, possibly some prominent family residences.

[Mouse]

Maybe this list might be of some help?

[waldronate]

The key to all of this is understanding why your city is there, how big it is, and how long i's been there. Everything else will sort of flow from that.

Why is the city there? The relative abundance of things you find in the city will be different for a trade-based city as compared to a resource-based city.

How did the city get there? A purpose-built city is laid out differently than one that evolves from a small village. A new city will have different services than one that's been around a long time and has reached equilibrium with the surrounding areas. Old cities can get rejuvenated when things happen (that dragon that kept the short route over the mountains closed is now dead? Whoohoo! New trade!). Cities can die back when things happen (the short route over the mountains is now closed because there's a dragon living in the pass? Crap!).

What's the physical site? A city on a hill is going to be laid out differently then one on a flat plain. People are lazy and certain mechanisms (e.g. wagons) don't go up steep slopes well. A desert city has different needs than one built in marshlands, even if both are flat.

How do the people get what they need to go about their daily lives (food, water, waste disposal, shelter, clothing, fuel, transport, maybe baths)?
Food is a good one. It's central to everything that we do. Is any food produced in the city? It will need production facilities. If food is imported, you'll need places for it come into the city and places for it to be sold (farmer's markets, a bazaar, specialty shops). Food comes in multiple grades, with varying values and lifetimes. Different classes of food will have different kinds of markets. Not only does food need to come into the city and be acquired, it needs to be prepared, which often takes energy sellers (charcoal, wood, magic rocks), food prep sellers (baskets need basketweavers, metal pots need tinkers and whitesmiths, clay pots need clay mining and potters, stoves need blacksmiths or metal casters), and possibly purveyors of fully-prepared food items. Finally, a way to remove the used food from the city (chamber pots, gutters, sewers, a river, magical plants) needs to be accounted for. Water has similar needs, but different equipment: streams, river, wells, aqueducts, pots, drinking vessels, sewers. One point that modern city dwellers tend to forget is that different kinds of foods are available at different times of the year, last for different amounts of time, and store for very different amounts of time. Slaughterhouses (enough said about that).
Clothing is also a point to consider. If people wear hides or leather, you'll need tanneries, which require water and produce horrible smells and pollution. If people wear woven textiles, you'll need a way to produce the raw materials (cotton, linen, silk, and wool all have very different prduction steps), spin the thread, and weave the cloth on a loom. If you have a special kind of fabric whose secrets are closely guarded (e.g. silk), you'll need special facilities for that. This production activity might not take place within the city limits, but is likely to happen close by. After the raw materials are produced, they need to be fashioned into clothing, which will require tailors. After the garments are ready for disposal, someone will will need to cart away the rags. Shoes deserve special attention, as do the fasteners.

How do people get luxury items (food, spices, jewelry, alcohol, drugs, clothes)? Are their luxury items that the city is known for producing? Are their luxury items that are under high demand by elites and will draw many times their normal price?

What are the castes in you society? Humans always want someone that they can look down on. Scum, Peasants, Workers, Bourgeoisie, Military, Priests, Royalty, and so on will all have their places in society, often literally. If your city has multipe cultures, you'll often have cultural districts that form, though perhaps not explicitly. Specific groups may get permission from the local overlord to set up their own walled ghettos.

What's the propulsive force for your society? If it's animal-drawn (even people-drawn) wagons, you need wagon makers, harness makers, blacksmiths, people to train animals, places to keep animals, feed for the animals, people to remove animal wastes, people to drive the wagons, and so on.

Who makes the rules and who maintains order in the city? Royalty, priests, and other elites will likely want their own spaces. Police or military may play a role in day-to-day operations and those folks will need a space, too.

How big is your city? The needs of a 10 000 person city are quite a bit different than the needs of a 100 000 person city. Generally, the smaller a city, the fewer services that it will offer. In a village, for example, prostitution is likely a cottage industry. In a metropolis, it is likely to be well-organized and have its own districts.

Don't lose sight of the need for crime, both organized and unorganized. Organized crime, in the form of guilds and unions, is all about price fixing. Your culture may offer concessions for sale (a monopoly on a certain kind of activity in exchange for payment to the local government). The individual owning the concession is responsible for providing the stated service, but may otherwise line their own pockets as they see fit. Think cable companies in the modern world or tax collectors and military suppliers in ancient times.

You mention magic item shops. What do they sell? How do they get stocked? Is there a magical China where low-wage wizards churn out wands of dubious quality that get imported cheaply? Is it an owner-operator kind of situation? Does the local temple have an outlet shop for relics and potions? Are their penalties to the seller for selling bad (won't do as advertised) or dangerous (blows up city blocks if accidentally broken, poisonous potions) items? Who evaluates quality? Who enforces enalties and regulations?

You mention pushing the temple out of town to try to keep order. Temples are traditionally centers of healing. You'll need to provide that healing function somewhere.

If your city has a lot of trade, it will need places for the traders to stay. This may include dedicated inns, it may include open lots for tents, it may include areas outside the city gates (don't want the gypsies in town overnight).


Answer the basic questions who, what, where, when, and why. All will be revealed.

[Jaekaido]

i want to thank you all for voicing your opinions as it really helps me to figure out this city. though i do have a question as this question has evolved a bit. if this were a capital of lets say a kingdom would it be alright to have it set next to a mountain, one days travel to the peak of that mountain?

[LordEntrails]

Sure. Maybe the city was built next to the mountain because it was very defensible. And as the most defensible place in the Kingdom, it's where the King/Queen made it there home...

[selden]

Srongholds usually are built on hilltops and cities often grow around them. Having a mountain at your back helps to protect that side.

[Falconius]

Very rarely does one see fortresses/castles next to a mountain. There is a reason castles are built on top of things and not abutting them. In the rare case where there is an actual cliff of enough severity to present an opportunity the fort/castle/monastery tends to be built halfway up it.

In a country where security isn't a concern, people will build in the valleys, where it's easier to get water to move around nearer to their fields and farms etc. In a country where there is a security concern they will build on hilltops.

So the question would be how secure is the country? Building at the base of a mountain is not ideal for a large city for a huge host of reasons, among them that the mountain can fall and crush the entire city. But mostly because it tends to be poor soil, difficult terrain and far from easy means of transport. In other words if the country is a powerhouse or can even hold their own, or have powerful allies, they would be unlikely to build a capital city at the base of a mountain. If however there is rich resources there, or the country lacks military strength/cohesiveness, is landlocked, that could provide enough reasons for them to make the effort to build in a difficult location.

[ladiestorm]

If this is a capital city, you might also want to think about who lives there, and their needs and wants. Nobility and royalty want beauty ... Gardens, theaters, places of entertainment.