Problem with a commission

[Azélor]

I did a commission a few weeks back and things didn't worked as planned.
I had to end it but managed to find an arrangement with the client.

I was to continue working on a map started by another artist.
Yet, I've found myself having to work on what the previous artist had not completed.
At first I though that it would be some simple modifications...

Soon it was clear to me that the client did not know what he wanted his world to look like (and where to place the elements like mountains).
This was more like worldbuilding than mapmaking.
I've built my own world too and I know it can take a lot of time and a lot of back and forth.
It's fine when it's your world but not so much when it's someone else world.

I was either expecting that:

I was to follow a strict guideline.
I was given a lot of freedom to fill the gaps.

But found myself with little freedom and no clear instructions.
I also had no idea of how many changes would come after.



I want to know if this kind of situation is common and how others are managing it.

My 2 solutions would be:

1- Refuse the offer. If you realize that the client doesn't know where he is going with the project : tell him to take more time to flesh out his world.
That's eventually what I did.
2- Charge more if you need to go through the process of building the world and the client is picky.

[QED42]

It might also be worth agreeing on a set number of revisions before embarking on a commission. That way it's clear for both sides how much work will be going into the commission and you can manage expectations on both sides better.

[Bogie]

I think the problem is they don't understand what we do. I think either of your options is acceptable.

I am getting into a similar problem as we speak. I was hired to do some encounter maps for a new adventure module that will go to Kickstarter in Oct/Nov.
When the developer contacted me to see if I could make the maps I told him that I was kinda busy but could take the time to make a couple simple small dungeon maps. He said he also needed 4 Forest encounter maps, but he really like some I already had on my gallery and could use them as is, maybe with a few minor alterations. So that is what we contracted, 2 original maps, and 4 older maps. I am getting paid a reasonable amount for the original maps and a smaller fee to license the commercial use of the others. I sent him 7 old maps to pick 4 he liked. The response was " I love these 4, but I need all the oak trees to be pine trees, I need the river to be wider, I need the dirt road to be a narrow path, and I need snow on some of them. I have spent as much time reworking the "use them as is" maps as I would have spent on the original maps and I haven't even started those yet. I am very close to telling him he isn't paying me enough.

I like QED42's idea, a set # of revisions included, $ for more. Wish I had thought of that before signing the contract.

[Mouse]

I would also be a bit wary if there is unfinished work done by someone else that the client wants to be finished. You only have his word that the copyright for the work done so far is his. If it isn't, then you could end up in a bit of a sticky patch if the original artist isn't even aware that his drafts are being finished by someone else (you) and takes exception to the fact!

To put it another way. If you discover in a couple of months time that your drafts are being used as a base for yet another cartographer to 'improve upon', I doubt that you would be very happy, since you probably wouldn't have been paid for those unfinished pieces.



EDIT: I know this is my cynical side coming out, but what a marvellous way to get a world map drawn for absolutely nothing - the client asks a series of cartographers to work on the same map by getting picky about things when the current cartographer has done the bit he wanted done.

You can almost hear the client thinking...

"First I will get A to do the coastline, then I will get B to do the mountains, and C is really good at rivers - I'll have his work added to the map next, and then I'll get D to do one of those fantastic forests he's so brilliant at doing... then E can make some of those lovely little city icons for me..." etc.

Then he's thinking:

"Of course, none of them own the copyright because none of them can call the map 'theirs', so I get the copyright too and I can do what I want with it, even though I haven't paid a penny for it"

[Azélor]

I would also be a bit wary if there is unfinished work done by someone else that the client wants to be finished. You only have his word that the copyright for the work done so far is his. If it isn't, then you could end up in a bit of a sticky patch if the original artist isn't even aware that his drafts are being finished by someone else (you) and takes exception to the fact!

To put it another way. If you discover in a couple of months time that your drafts are being used as a base for yet another cartographer to 'improve upon', I doubt that you would be very happy, since you probably wouldn't have been paid for those unfinished

Then he's thinking:

"Of course, none of them own the copyright because none of them can call the map 'theirs', so I get the copyright too and I can do what I want with it, even though I haven't paid a penny for it"

That is something that never crossed my mind. It could be a big issue. Thanks for bringing this.

Bogie: That's what I think. We need some guaranty that the work done will be paid. If it takes longer because the client changes his mind, it's not the fault of the artist, he should not be penalized. Adding a clause in the contact would help. It's it how it works on construction sites, they charge the extra (sometime they exaggerate).It should'nt be different with art commissions.

[LordEntrails]

Oh mouse, what has turned you so cynical? Unfortunately, the scenario you propose is not preposterous

As someone who has looked to commission other, number of revisions is something I would expect an artist to put in the contract. I would expect a delivery schedule of something like a draft (lines only, or black & white, or no effects), then probably a "initial production" version and one revision to it.

Honestly, as a consumer if I can't communicate to an artist what I want in what is effectively two feedback cycles, then I probably shouldn't be using the artist I selected.

Having done technical contracting, I will agree that picking up where someone else left off is a BIG warning to work with the customer and that I should expect issues.

[Mouse]

@LE - Yes it does sound bad, doesn't it, but I'm sure most clients are quite the opposite - polite, ready to discuss options, prepared to listen as well as to talk...

[Wired]

Both options are viable, Azelor. But there is a third option which I tend to use early on in my commission conversations: make it clear from the start that creating a map for a client and building a world for a client are two different things. I make it clear - politely, of course - that part of what is needed from the start is that, colloquially speaking, the clients have their **** together. Sadly, experience has taught me to take that stance.

Maybe a good metaphor is that unless you're contracted to do so you are, a carpenter while the client is the architect. You build what he has envisioned. The moment he leaves you in the rain and wants you to take over the part of architect without any true direction or guidance: make it clear that you're charging extra.

[Azélor]

Both options are viable, Azelor. But there is a third option which I tend to use early on in my commission conversations: make it clear from the start that creating a map for a client and building a world for a client are two different things. I make it clear - politely, of course - that part of what is needed from the start is that, colloquially speaking, the clients have their **** together. Sadly, experience has taught me to take that stance.

Maybe a good metaphor is that unless you're contracted to do so you are, a carpenter while the client is the architect. You build what he has envisioned. The moment he leaves you in the rain and wants you to take over the part of architect without any true direction or guidance: make it clear that you're charging extra.

If I need to do worlbuilding I either need
Little freedom and clear instructions or
A lot of freedom with minimal interferences

Else, all of this will fall in the extras and I will have to charge them separately. It helps to know in advance but we can't anticipate everything's. I think the contract's clause could handle most of the unknown.

[Straf]

From what I gather a lot of online artists are paid in 'publicity'. You do a piece of work and the person you did it for will promote you in some unspecified way. You'll get exposure.

Why do you have to worry about payments with that going on for you?