Starting Points and the Journey.

[tatteredglyph]

So, being new to all this - I see wonderful maps everywhere and wonder "how can I improve?" When I see someone who has been doing this for years, and I've only been doing it for a month, I get inspired and want to keep at this. I want to be proud of what I do. In fact, I am planning on doing a WIP thread for my first ever map project. I'm actually still working on a re-do of it, but those details will be discussed in that actual thread.

Anyways, I wanted to kind of... get a feel for how people started out and how they started their journey. I didn't expect to be getting really into map making, I thought it'd be a one-and-done type of thing for me. But I want to make awesome maps and maybe in the future make free resources for people. But I'm getting ahead of myself!

When you started out, how did you keep improving? Are you self-taught or did you go through countless tutorials to find a way to make maps that fit your tastes?

For me, I have trouble getting from point A to point B if I get inspired heavily. So, often times I struggle to figure out how to get from A to B. People don't often post their growth or starting points, and with such a large community - some people may have joined further into their journey and therefore have no old posts of what they were like when they started out.

I wanted to open up a discussion about progress and improvement. I like seeing where others have started out, as it gives me more hope that I can actually improve with critique and support.

[Diamond]

I didn't expect to be getting really into map making, I thought it'd be a one-and-done type of thing for me.

...And now you're trapped here, like the rest of us... muahahahahaa.....

I think my 'story' is pretty typical - I started reading fantasy and scifi at a young age and I was fascinated by the black and white maps you'd find in 70s and 80s fantasy novels. I remember especially reading the Elric books in the early 80s and looking at that map and thinking "That is cool!" I'm a creative person (well, we ALL are here, or we wouldn't be here, amirite?), so it was kind of inevitable that I'd start to create settings and ideas and characters and then want to draw them. My earliest efforts were done on lined notebook paper, graph paper, that old dot-matrix printer paper with the feed-holes on the sides. Pencil, colored pencils, some ink. In junior high and high school I was in charge of dungeon maps for our game group. My most ambitious project was a huuuuge map done on a piece of large posterboard - I must've spent months drawing that thing.

Unfortunately, at some point after I left home, almost all of my maps, drawings, etc etc went missing. My parents moved often, so I imagine all that stuff just got lost in the shuffle somehow. Nobody's fault, just one of those things. Still sad though.

Anyway, I never lost the map making bug. When home computers really became a thing, and especially primitive art programs like MS Paint, I was like "f**k yeah!". The number of MS Paint maps I made was... legendary. Again unfortunately, almost all lost to the vagaries of Father Time and dead computers. I do have this late example though, from right after I got my first version of Photoshop. The map itself was done in Paint, the text and poor attempt at a canvas pattern in PS:

shieldlandsfinal.png

After puttering around with PS for a year or so, someone* saw my cave-drawing maps on DeviantArt and sent me an invite to the Guild, where I learned 90% of what I know about 'modern' fantasy map-making. This place has been an INVALUABLE resource for me over the years. Here's one of my very first maps done after joining the Guild:

FarasiaFinal.jpg

A lot of map-making is just repetition. Trying the same stuff in new combinations until you unlock something cool. Trying out tutorials until you become confident enough in your mastery of them to try your own spins on them. Building on the work of those that were here before. I don't think I'd be half the map-maker I am if not for Ascension and his awesome tutorials, for example. Unless you're some kind of mutant super-mapper like Max or J.Edward, there is no real shortcut except to do the work.

Hopefully that was of some interest and didn't bore you to death!



*I wish I could remember who that was. It was someone that was a Guild member at the time, but I have no idea if they still are...

[Mouse]

J.Edward isn't human. He was born on the planet Art, and is a superhero cartographer by blood

My story is a heck of a lot more boring than Diamond's. I just started drawing maps for my never written novel one day, and here I am - stuck drawing maps. Its kind of addictive after a while.

[Kellerica]

Also: WORD.

J.Edward isn't human. He was born on the planet Art, and is a superhero cartographer by blood

[Azélor]

It started when I was building my world for a DnD campaign. At some point I figured I needed a map.
I started mapping using pen and paper, I scanned it, and improved it using my brand new copy of Photoshop CS3 (still using it).
Then in my researches for mapmaking, I've found this site. I had to be a member to see the attachments, that was scandalous. So I registered.
At that moment, my map was just a way to represent the world I was imagining and to help me to sort things out. It did not have to be pretty.
Eventually I felt more confident and posted my first map. The comments from other members were actually ok, when I think about it now.

My map had no personality and nothing interesting to critique except trees growing in the water.
That's the same thing as with many new members, we just don't always have anything worthwhile to say about their maps. (in my opinion)
I discarded the critiques as a waste of breath and left the site. I need to say I was still just a teen at that moment and took it badly.

I came back 5 years later only. Mature enough to take the critique and improve my skills.
Since then, I've been mapping on and off and I'm getting better at it.
About 1 or 2 weeks ago, I sandwiched all the layers from my old Ilvakor world because it's so bad compared to what I can do now.
The map isn't here anymore. It seems that I deleted it in 2013 after coming back, so I'm going to re-post it here. Apparently, that way of doing tree was novel, at least in 2008.
This is the first version of the map but there are others.

map copie2.jpg

This map is from last February. It shows the progress I made.
By my actual standards, I consider this map to be elegant yet somewhat simple because it lacks textures and colour variations.

twilight zone final.jpg

Lastly, I'm pretty certain that artists starts with no skills and improve by practising. Of course, some are learning faster than others but it's no different than other fields.
The Great Max started mapping using basic premade brushes. He made a lot of maps overtime, some of them are not listed on this site. He refined his skills with each map but he started a noob, as we all do.

[ladiestorm]

Lol... my story is completely different, but probably just as boring!

You see, I'm gamer...table top gamer, like a lot of people here. I was given the role playing bug by my jr high math teacher, back when I was 12. He used D&D as motivational tool to get us to do our homework, and to study for tests. And the rolling system, itself, is math based as well, so he was able to get away with it!

I played off and on through out my first two years of high school, but then moved out of state, and couldn't find a new group... so I got out of it for a while... until I started dating a guy that GM'ed his own games... and that got me right back in. That was 26 -27 years ago... and I've been gaming off and on ever since!

But it wasn't until a few years (and another boyfriend) later, when I was introduced to fantasy maps. I dated another GM that not only created his own campaigns, but also created his own worlds, and his own maps... with paper and pencil. He had a campaign that had taken him years to create... a world called Cargesh, and his maps of it were phenomenal! All of his maps were hand drawn, and they were beautiful.

When I started running my own games, I tried to make maps of my own worlds... and quickly realized that it was an exorcise in futility. I'm somewhat of a sought after GM in local gaming circles, because I'm a story teller and writer by nature... but I can't draw to save my life! 5 year olds can come up with better drawings than me. Even my stick figures look horrible! I paint pictures with words.

The problem for me, is that when I was creating worlds with no visual reference, trying to describe where players were, the terrain or location of landmarks, terrain issues during combat, made my players confused. Or I would forget to write down the descriptions of where things were in relation to places, terrain, what not, that made things difficult. I wanted to have maps for visual reference, and I could never find exactly what I was looking for.

And then Jan of 2016, a friend of mine asked me to create a D&D campaign for 5th ed. for him and his wife to play in. She was new to gaming, so he wanted it to start small, but he also wanted something that would turn into an epic campaign... one that would grow with her (and the other players) experience. I didn't use modules, couldn't afford them at the time, but also... I enjoy creating my own worlds and my own campaigns. But with new players, I knew I was going to HAVE to have maps for visual reference, so that they wouldn't get easily confused, and plus, having maps make the experience more 'real'. So I started working on building the world the campaign would take place in.

Once I had an idea of what the world was going to be like, I started looking for maps that would work for it... but again, I could never really find anything that worked.

That's when I stumbled across the guild here. I started looking at the maps that people were making, and I quickly learned that there were now programs out there that would help me create the maps I couldn't draw. I looked into about 7 or 8 different free map making programs, but they didn't quite give me the feel I wanted.

Then, in Feb, I found the profantasy website, and Campaign Cartographer 3+. I had seen maps made by others with the software, and I was hooked! I saved up enough money to purchase three programs - cc3+, DD3( for dungeons) and CD3 (for cities and towns). I joined the guild, watched some of Joe Sweeny's tutorials, and made some maps of the different continents in the campaign world I was creating. Here is the first map I ever made:

Andelar.JPG

It's not a bad map for a first attempt. In fact, it's posted here on the guild, in my gallery. The people here were very supportive, encouraging, and instructive as well. Between the members here at the guild, and the members of the profantasy forumns I've learned a lot! Of course, I realize I've just nipped the tip of the iceburg... I still have a LOT to learn! But here is an example of how far I've come in about a year ( had to take a 5 month hiatus)

Capryse.07.JPG

This one isn't finished yet, but I think you can see the difference in my progress... and it's all because of the help I've received on these two websites.

[Pixie]

What a good topic for a night where I find myself with some minutes for the guild (highly unusual nowadays)... Here's my story, which I'm posting since I think even within this geeky guild of ours, I'm a little extra unusual..

Extra unusual because the "fantasy" in fantasy mapping normally puts me off... So, I create fantasy stuff, but with zero fantastic elements. Got it, no magic, no dragons

I got started as a teenager, a middle school student copying styles from History and Geography textbook maps, but on made up lands. This blew out of proportion at the time and I made an earth-sized with lots of countries, and drew flags, and drew biome maps, and population density maps, (all pretty poor, mind you, I always struggled in Art) and forced my friends to choose some of those countries and develop their lore. They never did, but we played a lot of games based on this made up world. Even a pen and paper Battleship would be a battle in a war between A and B, an afternoon playing Subbuteo would be a World Cup, etc.

All that was lost between relocations.. the usual. Come Uni time and I was really into Play-by-Email (right at the end of the 90's, you probably never heard of PBEM). Tried D&D online and with local groups, but dwarves and orcs... bah... online I found some games that were instead historical simulations and decided to create my own game - a no-fantasy diplomacy/management game set in a kind of realistic middle ages environment. MSPaint was my only software to draw maps, which were needed both for the players and myself. I made a few for my game. Like in Diamond's story, almost all of it is lost in burnt drives, forced "Format C:" mishaps, etc... But I found one map and a version of the rules some time ago (on a now shut down archive of previously shut down websites!) and keep it religiously as my "oldest" piece.

This was done in MS Paint. The actual terrain was generated with some random/fractal generator available at the time, but I honestly have no idea how it was called. I also have no idea where I stole the icons from, although my bad memory is leaning towards at least some of them having been taken from an early version of Civilization. The date-tag for the file is August, 2000. I remember that this was a duchy in a larger realm.
Darpen.gif

Then comes a big gap and maybe a decade later I dug up Railroad Tycoon 3, which was an oldie of a computer game by then but had this amazing map editor in 3d. You could carve mountains, pan around the land, paint it, lay rivers, etc (and then play the game on "your" map). Making maps for RRT 3 was a huge addiction for a while and it got me back to making up countries and continents and worlds...

I found this site in 2014, when looking for online resources to help me create and draw a world with more realism and creative freedom than Fractal Terrains. I was very excited and wanted to recreate everything in "my world" like it had been more than 20 years ago. This was my first post with a map on it... Everything since has been about that map. A lot of reading, experimenting and learning - 3 years later, and still feeling that I accomplished very little (yet). This ultra-realism path that I'm taking is really, trully, the least travelled path, but a few fellow guilders have joined in some parts - Azelor, groovey, Charerg... This forum is an amazing source of push forward! You ask how "one keeps improving", the answer is very simple - press every button your software has to learn what it does, and keep coming back to this site to share and look at what others share.

[Kellerica]

I concur with Pixie, such a good topic!

I certainly went through a similar experience as you: I was working on a worldbuilding project, and I too thought that making a map would be something that I'd do quickly and just once and then be done with it. Oh, how young and naive I was!

... okay, I actually wasn't that young. It was about five years ago, at the most. Could be even less. I've lost track. Unlike most of these guys here, I was a fairly late bloomer when it comes to mapping. I had been a huge fantasy geek since I was a kid, of course, but the maps were something I never had given that much thought. Not until I started thinking about making my own.

But I digress... Back in when I was still working on that first project, I had a copy of Photoshop Elements on my computer. My parents are graphic designers, so I knew what it was, but that was pretty much all I knew about the software. One fatal night I got a brilliant idea, and I sat in front of my computer and typed the words "how to make a fantasy map in photoshop" into the Google search engine.

That's how it all began. I came upon the Cartographers' Guild forum, and immediately saw it for the treasure tove it was. I dug through several tutorials and produced some truly horrible first attempts (I have none of them left to show, sadly... didn't think them worth saving), but I kept going. If you're a Photoshop user and are looking for any actual tutorial recommendations, the first ones I ever used were the ones by Jezelf (there should be a topic somewhere that lists the beginner tutorials on this site) and a bit later the brilliant Saderan tutorial by Tear. Those really have taught me all I know of Photoshop, and even though my maps still leave something to be desired, I can honestly say that I am pretty good with the software itself. They provided me with enough of a basis that I could keep at it myself.

And now, here I am, a few years later. The worldbuilding project that got me started is long since dead (and good riddance, it was pure crap), but now there are new worlds and new maps. I don't have all that much time to actually make maps right now, but I do keep coming back to it everytime I can. I can't imagine stopping anymore.

As far as I'm concerned, the key to improving is simply repetion. Make maps, make mistakes and learn from them. You are usually your best critic, and I think it's important to learn to identify what exactly are the parts of your maps that you do or don't like. A lot of people have said that posting maps here is a good way to find advice, and while that is certainly true, it does depend on the person. I took me over a year to even make an account to CG, and it wasn't until two years after that I actually felt comfortable enough to post a map. And I still don't like the idea of posting WIP pieces myself. So... different strokes.

For me, the most important thing is to keep working on projects I'm actually interested in. Sometimes that means I drop things before they're finished, but the only way I really improve is to have that fire of inspiration. When I'm invested, then I actually do want the piece to look as good as possible, to be as accurate as possible. If it's just something I'm doing for the sake of doing it, it starts to feel like work and I lose interest completely. Even the maps I've made as practise pieces have had that small idea, or a little spark of inspiration that has made them worth seeing through. This is just me, though!

... sorry, that got a little long...

[Diamond]

For me, the most important thing is to keep working on projects I'm actually interested in. Sometimes that means I drop things before they're finished, but the only way I really improve is to have that fire of inspiration. When I'm invested, then I actually do want the piece to look as good as possible, to be as accurate as possible. If it's just something I'm doing for the sake of doing it, it starts to feel like work and I lose interest completely. Even the maps I've made as practise pieces have had that small idea, or a little spark of inspiration that has made them worth seeing through. This is just me, though!

I can solemnly swear that's not just you.

[tatteredglyph]

None of these are boring!

Everyone's journey is different and unique, and while it's the "norm" to you - and wholly might be boring, it can inspire and make others see that older users and long-time map makers aren't scary. It also brings together people who otherwise might not have met or communicated.

I'm noticing a lot of D&D players, I personally have never played. My boyfriend says it's fun, but I don't know. I'm much more of a writer, and so when it's just sitting around talking, it's not my cup of tea. I may try to dabble in it if I can ever find a group, but other than that, I create on my own - well, with my boyfriend.

What got me started is we role play together. And I got tired of the modern setting, and because I love fantasy, I figured I'd drop all our role play characters in a single universe. I'm inspired by things like Bethesda's Skyrim, George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire, and practically anything written by Dan Simmons. They have inspired me to work at my craft and get better at it. [And, I just came out of a toxic friendship, and I'm feeling more energized and motivated to do these things.]

@Diamond
Yes, I'm certainly trapped now! Lol!

I love that you started so early! Usually I think of people around here as my age, and it's cool to see so many people varied in age around. I looked at your profile and saw you were 45. That's really awesome seeing someone much older than me have such a passion for this sort of thing.

@Mouse
Hey! Don't discredit yourself. But, that's neat. Since I'm now really into map making, I plan on doing the same for my Sci-Fi novel (which will probably never be finished or published). But that's a long way away until I see progress from myself.

@Azelor
Everyone as a teenager, I think, is bad at taking criticism. But, at least you came back and learned from it. That's the important thing. Learning and taking criticism is so important in crafting anything, so it's cool that you came back to this.

@ladiestorm
I wish my math teachers were that fun! That said, that's a really neat story. Before I joined I've seen some of your maps and you're really good! The funny thing with me is I can craft words like no one's business, but when it comes to actually drawing those words? That's where I stumble. It can be hard for me to actually get my vision from my head to paper. But, that's what practise is for, right?

@Pixie
That's actually a really unique perspective. Fantasy with no fantasy, I actually like that. I used to write out similar things, fantasy with no real fantasy elements to it, those were some fun stories. (You're right, I don't know what Play-by-Email is, but I'm also pretty young compared to a lot of members apparently.) But, that MS Paint map is actually an inspiring starting point. While yes, it might not be the best, but first attempts are always special to us, because it's what gets us to start and improve and move onto bigger and better things. It's wholly impressive you made that in paint. "Press every button your software has to learn what it does, and keep coming back to this site to share and look at what others share." -- That is great advice, and I certainly will be doing that!

@Kelleri
That's pretty much how I found the site, too, actually. I was googling how to make fantasy maps, and stumbled upon a video tutorial that led back to this site. I don't regret joining at all, and I'm quite happy with the community. It's the most sincere and helpful community I've ever joined. I try not to think of my stuff as "crap" and I always save even the worst of my projects, because it's a good reference to how much you have improved. But, hearing your story was great.


Thank you, everyone, for sharing! These are great stories, and is really motivating me - this community is honestly the most warm and inviting that I've ever seen. It's really nice being welcomed and being able to start a discussion with older users like this.

/long post is really long! Sorry! I just wanted to touch base with everyone's story. None of you are boring, and everyone's journey is a journey worth sharing with new users.