A Crazy Idea for the Guild

[Redrobes]

Theres some good points here.

First let me reply to the point above about content. I would only be interested in making maps or at most some short descriptions but not so much in the style of a full module and I think most of us are leaning that way in this guild. But I thought be we co-joined at the hips with a group who has more interest in the writing and back story so thats where I thought the module aspect would come from.

In terms of site design w.r.t selling modules I would not think that we need worry about that as RPGNow et al handle all of that. You are right about the money tho in that it would have to be accounted maybe even taxed. Personally I don't give a hoot about the money as I know its going to be very little. Maybe Arcana is right in that if we were shifting many hundreds+ of free modules then there would be more temptation to charge. The difference in take up between stuff thats free and very cheap but not free is drastic tho believe me.

To have a physical product has its downsides too. Unless we have somebody who can print on demand or run small quantity then you end up with stock which has to be stored, posted and accounted for. The digital route is much easier and you can update or make changes to it.

The licensing issues is a little more tricky too. Some applications restrict some content based on it so you would have to be sure that you were able to use the art correctly. Most shared art has a requirement for non-commercial use. I have stated that anyone can use icons from my set as they wish as part of a map but the downloads from the site are creative commons with non-commercial attribution & share-alike. So fine for the CC content but not if you charge for it. I don't know if Kepli is listening to add whether DJ & CC2/3 art is likewise but I see a lot of that on these maps too.

and I am in full agreement with keeping it small to start. When your faced with a large amount of work it can seem very daunting. The skill most required more than any artistic type is just sheer tenacity. Its just so easy to give up on it.

[NeonKnight]

CC3 issues for maps is very....liberal, with their licenses.

The way it was explained to me is as follows:

A CC3 map is like a printed document. You have the right to make and sell the document using the program, but instead of FONTS you have IMAGES. As long as you are only selling the final Image of the finished map and not providing access to the 'fonts' you are OK. Lots of smaller companies out their using CC3 to make and sell map packs, or even image libraries for use with that software (i.e. MS and ADOBE Does not care if I write a document, and then sell said document in WORD or PDF format, as long as I do not provide licensed material/intellectual property to others who did not pay for it).

Does that make sense?

[hans_worst]

But when you download new IMAGES for CC3. The owner of those images may not be so liberal? I believe this is the answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_...omputer_Images

[NeonKnight]

Here is the pertinent text straight out of the License agree for ALL official Profantasy Files (programs, symbol sets, etc):

USE OF SYMBOLS AND ARTWORK

This update includes a large amount of symbols, fill-styles and other artwork in a variety of file formats (OUR ARTWORK). This section sets out how you can distribute maps containing OUR ARTWORK.

(i) Subject to the restrictions in section ii and iii, you may freely distribute the maps you create using OUR ARTWORK in CC3 format, but not the source image files (PNG and bitmap artwork) associated with them. You may freely distribute flat files (for example BMP and PNG) exported from CC3 containing OUR ARTWORK. You may publish such maps for commercial gain.

(ii) You may not redistribute any map that in our sole opinion is, or appears to be, for the purpose of disseminating OUR ARTWORK. Think of your maps as documents, and our symbols as fonts. You can print a document containing Times New Roman font, but you can't give the font file away, or produce a "font book".

(iii) You may not produce commercial products which consist predominantly of floorplan-resolution exports of OUR ARTWORK without written permission from ProFantasy Software Ltd. This includes but is not limited to PDF tiles.

[helium3]

Excellent idea, Tim. Perhaps we should see how Torq's scheme goes? I don't mean to sound negative but it's just in my experience 'big' projects which are carried out by volunteers, usually start with a lot of enthusiasm and fire and then either get mired by a lot of discussion about how to do something (rather than going ahead and doing it) or people lose interest and drift away. Content high projects like these need a project manager with a really sharp vision and contributors who do not take offence if their content is edited by the PM.

I have had a similar, albeit singular, experience with a community design project. As I saw it, there were two problems that seemed to crop up. The first is a question of maintaining enthusiasm in order to avoid key participant drop out.

The second is a bit more difficult. The most enthusiastic members of a project also seem to have very strong ideas about what the project results look like. So, there can be a lot of potential for conflict between the key producers. In opinion, this is even worse than the slow attrition of the folks that are interested in the concept but not necessarily into producing a lot of results.

I have some ideas about how to deal with both of these, but they're wholely untested.

[Midgardsormr]

I, for one, would be glad to entertain your ideas, especially since the collaborative worldbuilding project is chugging along at a good pace. So do share!

[The Cartographist]

All - I've given this a lot of thought, especially concerning Arcana's concerns. I would propose the following:

Rather than have Arcana worry about any of those things, a third party publisher could produce material with the Cartographer's Guild logo stamped on the front with material provided by the artists from the guild. The third party publisher would handle artists and their compensation including contracting, track all of the accounting, and then provide to Arcana a "licencing fee" to be formally and contractually agreed upon between Arcana and the publisher. Contracts would be signed between each artist and the publisher (in the same way as all work is done in the industry right now) stipulating compensation, copywrite, etc.

I would think that the artist would maintain the copywrite in his name, which would be clearly documented in the product.

For a given product, the compensation split could be:
- 25% to the publisher for putting the whole thing together.
- 25% to Arcana in the form of a "licensing fee".
- 50% to the group of artists who contributed, split proportionally to their contribution.
Although these are numbers just off of my head. Perhaps it could go 20/20/60 or 25/35/40 or some other.

The whole original purpose of this idea was to help defray the costs that Arcana bears in running the website, which, while I don't think are considerable, are real. Likewise, the earnings from such a venture probably wouldn't be huge anyway.

Another positive side-effect of doing this would be more advertising for the guild to continue our growth with new members, etc. And, perhaps there are other areas into which the Guild might want to expand that would also cost money; the decision to embark in something like that would be much easier if there were a ready source of funding.

Anyway, I have looked at a lot of stuff out there, especially stuff that is sold on RPGNow.com, and some of the other sites. The quality of many of the "amatuers" here in the Guild is as strong as some of the stuff that is available commercially. The money is not huge (I don't think that anyone really does any of this stuff for the money), but it is there, and I believe that it could be made to the benefit of all of us.

[ravells]

I think Lulu do publishing...the Traveller community uses them but I have no idea what their terms are.

[mathuwm]

ya know I work for a printing company that does quite a bit of on demand printing and has a well developed e-business group

but the one thing i think that kills most of these endeavors is the lack of a good plan.

first make sure you have a good product that people will want
make sure it is legal to distribute print and sell it.
develop a plan that will be beneficial to you and a printer/distributor
use a printer printing that can do fulfillment, storing several copies on site and distributing when an order comes through.
there will be printing charges, storage charges, fulfillment charges, shipping, composition, and web development/ebusiness charges

so make sure there is enough interest or you will loose you shirt


how about some free adventure modules for download
and you could track how much interest that develops before leaping off a cliff

although nothing worth doing is without risk

anyway just some random fragmented thoughts

[Badger]

all good points... perhaps we should do some free adventure modules or even a catalog of ten user maps.. or compile the last few challenge winners into a volume for download... see how it runs...