As I read the posts I have come to a realization. I now know what it is that is making me shy away from 4e. Its NOT the mechanics. As a mater of fact I realy like what I'm reading here of the new rules. What I realised is it the way they presented the game.
They came out saying things like "a fair and ballenced party", "a more ballenced combat". THAT is what rubbed me the wrong way. Now I know it's a wrong idea from what I have seen but when I read that I see in my mind an image of a race for children. They all run but only one crosses the line but all get trophies and ice cream.
To me it destroyed the notion of Dare to Be Grate! No guts no Glory! If I run a bad guy I think like a bad guy. Being fair and ballenced to the enemy? *&^$&$! to THAT! I WANT TO WIN!!
As I said I realise how wrong that image is now.

Any way. One other thing. Is anyone interested in opening a thread on talking about Pathfinder compared to 3.5? Just asking!