Seems Odd

[Jaxilon]

I too am pleased to think that someone is able to enjoy a map I make by using it in one of their games. Feedback is always great because it spurs you on to make your next map.

I was looking at the downloads though and I'm a bit confused. I noticed that just a few lines on a page gets downloaded, what's that about? I can understand once an item starts taking shape but when it's still in the infancy stages why would anyone download that? Unless maybe, they are trying to create their own work in progress. Seems a waste though because like Ascension said, if they were to try and create a new map like it they would not have the ability.

I think a lot of what we are talking about here is along the lines of what the music industry went through a few years ago. There is always going to be the leaks. I am reminded of something I read written by one of the guys at Stardock. Stardock put a game out called Galactic Civilizations 2, and it had absolutely NO anti-piracy software. Boy the anti-piracy developers went ape nuts over how foolish this was. They said, Stardock was going to loose their shorts because they were making it possible for folks to easily pirate the game. The Stardock guy said something about knowing your target audience and not stressing about the few who were going to rip the game just because they could. The end result? GalCiv2 was like the best selling game of the year or something. Basically, they rolled the game out, allowed you to register with them and then you got free updates and added content for several months afterwards. You also had a reputation with them and could talk with them on their boards, offer suggestions and the like, yadda yadda.

It was an incredible debate that went on about the value of anti-piracy. One of the Anti-piracy companies had a guy who actually posted the game for a short time for download who was later forced to apologize by his company. What an idiot.
Best seller of the year was a great victory for the good guys though.

I think the target we want are the folks who offer feedback and/or are willing to pay something because not only do they get more of what they want, but it helps all of us continue to put out more stuff. These are the win/win people. Thieves just gradually kill it for everyone.

[tilt]

how do you look at downloads? I just thought we could only see how many time a thread was watched...

[Ascension]

Hmm, well maybe if you had to donate a dollar (or 10) in order to download something if you had no posts or no minimum post number say like 10...we require 5 posts before being able to send private messages. Or maybe for like every 10 posts you go down a dollar until you get to the point where you don't have to donate any more.

[tilt]

the problem here is how to do that practically - cause if you see the map - then you can download it, or take a screenshot (but most maps are of course bigger than the screen). And if you want the people to give good critique, you'll have to show them a good quality map
We could do a test for people being able to se more than thumbs... 3 easy questions concerning copyright

[Crayons]

Um, er.... yup, I only just joined and so I'd better put my hands up now and confess! I'm one of the very few volunteer moderator/admins at RPGLife - the website in question that sparked this thread. I'd like to plead "lack of credibility" in my defence!
....and, yes, torstan, I'm the same "Crayons" who responded to you and then poked senior Admin into dealing with the situation you raised. Whilst I have admin rights there, I'm generally just a "moderator with extreme prejudice" when it comes to the "bot" spammers and the like. If it's OK with you guys I'd just like to be the noob here? If you want stuff deleted off there could you please contact RPG Life directly as mentioned earlier?

Now, before I appear for my public stoning I could add a bit of info about some of the discussion here, plus I have a question( or two) on copyright and here.

Firstly. Back in 2002 I had a Digimarc registry (mentioned earlier) for some of my artwork I put on the web. It does work - PSP can read it for example. However, it costs a little money depending on the number you intend using. It's also not foolproof (back then anyway) - the water mark is (as far as I could tell) invisible but didn't seem to survive cropping. Sometimes it could read that there was one but not the ID. I guess the point comes down to who owns the least corrupted original. If someone is publishing a cropped version and you have the uncropped original - the courts will presumably favour your claim. It's still a murky old area.
However - the nice thing is that people are basically good. Like you chaps. They usually don't mind their stuff being free so long as credit is assigned (and I thoroughly agree with that sentiment) aaaaand most people don't steal anyway. Not intentionally anyway. All in all the whole thing gives me one of those rare warm feelings about the human species!

Secondly, the question(s).
I've recently bought into Runequest, "The Second Age" as a campaign area and I was basically confused by all the separate maps in the books. As a private project and to learn FM8 a bit, I basically joined all the maps together to make one single .FMP of continental Genertela. It's a fairly monster map, and not entirely accurate to the books, what with FM8's fractals doing their "thing". It's not exactly an artistic masterpiece either but could be useful to RQ players/GMs.
However, it's essentially a sort of "tracing" of Mongoose's map design with all the place names etc that go with that. Mongoose appear to reserve copyright on anything pertaining and so forth and so I'd be happy to write to them to ask the various permissions.
In a nutshell - does anyone know Mongoose? Would I be wasting my time asking and, more importantly, what should I be asking them if I wanted to publish it on CG?

cheers!
C

[NeonKnight]

Well, from what we/I know, Fan Derivative works fall outside the realm. If the patchwork map is an entirely original work (i.e. You Traced the original merged maps and then 'redid' the whole), you should be fine. I say this, because I redid all the encounter maps from Thunderspire, Pyramid of Shadows and Trollhaunt Warrens modules by Wizards of the Coast, as clean Encounter Maps suitable for printing and for use with minaitures. I put on the maps when I knew whose work they were based on, and my own or open commons artwork for symbols/fills etc. To date I have not heard of complaints from Mike Schley or WotC to remove my maps, and I KNOW they are likely aware of it (the maps were used by the folks at Penny Arcade in their games, and I know these folks are quite friendly with the WotC staffers.)

And thats just me, lots of maps here are reworks of other peoples worlds, so again,I think you should be fine, especially if you are not selling them, and giving credit where credit is due.

[torstan]

Mongoose is a pretty decent sized company with a lot of products they keep track of. When I did some work for them they were happy to let me put it up in my portfolio, but they were clear that I would need to make it obviously labeled that it was their copyright. I'd be surprised if they objected to your use of their work in the way that you say, but there's certainly no harm in sending them a note to check. if you have trouble tracking down an email address then send me a pm here and I'll track one down from my work with them.

And no worries about the map issue - thanks a lot for passing the question along to the guys who handled it. That was a pretty quick turnaround actually and you did a good job. I'll see what I can do to hold back the stones

[tilt]

*putting down the fluffy live roleplaying stone* *lol*... good show Crayons - and as you have read in this thread, we're just concerned with credit and don't really believe people steal (a lot) but more that people "share without predjudice" and we know you moderators and admins on a free site can't keep track of it all either, but as mentioned earlier, if the process for uploading included a credit field - then it would get people thinking more

Concerning your map I agree with the others, if you have drawn a new map inspired by theirs I think they will be allright with you publishing it - but it never hurts to ask... especially since it can hurt NOT to ask *lol*.
There are lots of maps in here from books, games etc - and nobody has been hung yet - its like fan fiction ... it helps sell the product behind it and no need to shout at fans who are putting money in our pockets

[Midgardsormr]

Just a by-the-way: If you're concerned that one of your images has escaped custody and is running amok out there on the 'net, try Tin Eye. It's a reverse image search. You upload or link to your image, and it searches its index to find matches. It's still in beta, I think, and it's still building its index, but it does work. I've never found one of my own images with it, but I have used it to track down the source of an image that I wanted to use in order to find out its pedigree (it turned out to be a NASA photograph in the public domain, which is why I found it everywhere with no attribution).

And welcome Crayons! The issue of derivative works is murky. I've done essentially what you describe with the map from Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time, and I have to admit that it made me a bit nervous, particularly since I was unable to locate any guidelines for fan art based on Jordan's work. RPGs, of course, are a somewhat unique area of intellectual property, since there is an expectation that GMs and players will expand upon the existing information and create derivative works as a side effect of playing the game. And since we roleplayers are naturally cooperative, sharing people, anyone who publishes in this industry should expect that those derivative works will be shared and further expanded. That being the case, I do not think Mongoose should object to your project or your sharing of it. Whether should equates to would is, of course, another matter.

The short answer is that there isn't a short answer—maybe it's okay and maybe it isn't, and the way the courts would hypothetically decide shouldn't be your guiding principle. The safest course is to try to get in touch with Mongoose and ask for permission, 'cause that's bulletproof.