Castle Plans

[Sigurd]

I wonder what would be the best way to protect the castle from water erosion. I think if the moat was that close its likely the castle is on solid rock or has been built from below the water line up or magically protected some way. If the region has winter, frost would push the banks into the water as they couldn't go up for the weight of the castle.



Even a few seasons would have a tendency to undermine the heavy stone walls. The moat might be a strategic negative if it helps the sapping of the walls.


Sigurd.

[RPMiller]

If memory serves, most moats are artificially created and stagnant so there is little water movement, and the castle would be built on some pretty solid ground that would be tightly compressed during the actual building so erosion didn't usually factor in.

Even the castles built with natural moats were actually built in an area that had a tidal flow and the castle would be on an area that didn't experience the erosion - solid rock as you suggested or very dense earth.

[Redrobes]

If memory serves, most moats are artificially created and stagnant so there is little water movement, and the castle would be built on some pretty solid ground that would be tightly compressed during the actual building so erosion didn't usually factor in.

Even the castles built with natural moats were actually built in an area that had a tidal flow and the castle would be on an area that didn't experience the erosion - solid rock as you suggested or very dense earth.

This goes against my experience. Most of the big gun castles over here which have water filled moats have natural sources. Some of these have been modified but usually its from a river with changing water.

Caenarfon
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...06738&t=h&z=18

Conwy
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...06738&t=h&z=18

Chepstow
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...26951&t=k&z=16

Pembroke
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...13475&t=h&z=17

Beaumaris
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...06738&t=h&z=18
http://www.beaumaris.com/
http://www.castlewales.com/beaumar.html

Also beau means beautiful and maris means marsh. The castle was built on a swamp - including the curtains !

The 'rules' about castles seem to be broken quite often as you go around them.

Edit -- Googles sattellite seems to be switched off right now for me.

[RPMiller]

Well there you go then. To my benefit it has been over 20 years since I bothered studying castles. Thanks for the great links! The images are coming up fine for me.

[The Stoat]

This goes against my experience. Most of the big gun castles over here which have water filled moats have natural sources. Some of these have been modified but usually its from a river with changing water.

Caenarfon
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...06738&t=h&z=18
Conwy
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...06738&t=h&z=18
Chepstow
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...26951&t=k&z=16
Pembroke
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...13475&t=h&z=17
Beaumaris
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...06738&t=h&z=18

Also beau means beautiful and maris means marsh. The castle was built on a swamp - including the curtains !

The 'rules' about castles seem to be broken quite often as you go around them.

Edit -- Googles sattellite seems to be switched off right now for me.

From the evidence you provide I would side with RPMiller. All but one of the castles you show do not have moats. They are built on the shores of rivers. The river is not the castle's defense instead the castle is defending the river. The moat for Beaumaris is in fact stagnant and artificial. Most moats were not intentionally filled with water. They were just a ditch a short distance from the wall that provided one more barier for attacker to overcome. A moat that was actually connected to a river would allow errode the walls over time and allow attacker to approach using large boats. Once cannons came on the scene moat became much less important, water filled ditches did little to stop cannon balls.

[Redrobes]

Naturally the castle defends the river but the river also defends the castle too. Also w.r.t Beaumaris, the moat water might be stagnant now but it was originally connected to the castle and it has in more recent years become land locked. Here is a quote from the site...

The first line of defense was provided by a water-filled moat, some 18ft wide. At the southern end was a tidal dock for shipping, where vessels of 40 tons laden weight could sail right up to the main gate.

These were examples of castles with water around them. There are many which did not have water and had just a ditch whether natural - like Tintagel or artificial (at least on some sides) like Harlech, or Dover.

I cant think of a castle which has water around it which is not connected to the sea or a river and made from an artificial ditch. That was the point I was trying to put forward. There must be some but I think they are more the minority. In order to have standing water with no source you would be on naturally boggy ground which is how Beaumaris continues to keep its water but its not often that a castle is sited on such ground - for a second reason that would imply low lands when castles are usually sited on hills.

Yes, cannons changed everything. Castles changed considerably over the period as experience and technology improved but cannons brought the end of traditional castles. They adapted a bit to the cannon with their soft sloping walls etc but it was short lived.