4e Core Rulebooks

[NeonKnight]

So I got a hold of some PDFs of the upcoming 4e rulebooks (Yes they are likely 'illegal' no I was not the one who found them, YES I still plan on paying cash for the REAL things, as them DM I like having a copy on my PC and if I can get a week ahead of time to read the books all the better).

So, with my quick perusal what can I say about the new game?

I like it. It looks a lot cleaner, and looks a lot smoother to play. As an example, Wizards (my favorite character), has everything needed to play a Wizard PC in the Wizard section of the Player's Book.

Example: All Wizard spells, special abilities, etc is in the wizard section. Also, now the spells (either a daily or encounter 'power') are listed as to the level you need to be to cast it, not the level of the spell. Example, Fireball in previous editions was a Level 3 spell that you needed to be level 5 to cast. very difficult at time to remember all that. In the new game Fireball is now a Level 5 power (meaning you get it at level 5, pretty nifty eh?).

The game also now allows for PCs to play towards a goal (example being Demigodhood at level 31). This does not mean at level 31 you now are a god and continue to play. Nope, quite the contrary. Your character achieves your ultimate goal, and is then retired from play.

Classes are better balanced against each other, and each class has a couple of different roles assigned to the them. Example: A character is either a Controller, Artillery, Soldier etc. This means (again the wizard), is best as either a controller or Artillery. A controller means that have abilities to control the battlefield and opponents, throwing up Flaming walls, moving your opponents, holding opponents in place etc. Or they could be artillery, throwing massive damage around etc.

On the DM's side, one of the best additions to the game is the Minion ability. Some monsters have assiting monsters called minions. Minions are almost as strong as the main monsters but with one slight change: They only have 1 HP. You read that right a Level 13 Minion has only a single HP You hit them, and they die. But, as a minion, they take no damage on a missed attack (so abilites that do X damage on a miss have no effect on minions). This means you can now have those grand cinematic battles where the PCs are fighting the Zombie lord (as an example) and his undead horde. The undead horde is a real threat, but the PCs can cut through like a hot knife trough butter.

Very cool.

There are lost more I can say about the game, but all I can say, is I am going to be a very very giddy little boy come Friday when I plunk down my big bucks (I still have no idea what the cost will be to me, but I suspect something like $100) and get my in the 'flesh' (so to speak) books for real.
So much love!

[RPMiller]

Thanks for the review NK. Hopefully someone in my face to face group will take a stab at running the system. I honestly have little desire to buy the books currently as I rarely play D&D, but it would be worth taking a look at it. I would try playing a session over MapTool, but I am afraid I would have way too many questions and would ruin the session for others.

[cdenham]

Thanks for the review.

For those interested, Amazon is having a pre-order sale going on where you get the 3 core books, DM Guide, PH, and MM as a boxed set for $57.72. Great buy! It is going to normally retail for about $105.

Here is a link... LINK

[loogie]

ugh dnd...

i know its the most popular system out there, but its all a little bland for my taste... i find dnd to be to super powered and very directional... a lot like world of warcraft, but in the rping sense (eg.. if you a cleric, your job is to heal. you'll rarely get the chance to do anything else... and if your like me, and would like to make a character that isn't just a healer... your fellow companions complain for hours about how they think you should be healing them). I also prefer my battles to be a bit more then races to 0 hp. the system i play now has bleeding, broken bones, stun, penalties, all of which are in a series of tables that every hit uses... so it helps describe how combat is going much more...

that being said.. dnd is better then nothing, and i find that it fits what many people like playing, and if so, all power too ya. i'm a bit more hardcore in my rping, and hack and slash isn't all i want out of a game... just like to tell people that there are more options out there... (i had no idea there were good options out there till my friends turned me on to iron crown enterprises, now i'm pretty stuck on their systems)

[cdenham]

I pretty much agree with you, loogie. LOTS of other great RPG's out there. In my opinion, WOTC pretty much killed the role playing in D&D and turned it into a number crunch fest. I was really hoping 4.0 would cure that but with 1 hp minions it doesn't sound like it.

I love the openness of the the original D&D version. Just a basic set of guidelines, a DM's opinion, and good imagination.

[NeonKnight]

Well Loogie, in 4e D&D you don't really need a cleric as a healer. everyone can heal themselves either through Healing Surges, Second Winds, or simply short or extended rest periods. Example, your front line fighter is taking a beating? Instead of attacking one round you take a second wind and regain a certain amount of HP.

Conversely, the Cleric has nifty abilities to use while in a fight to allow their allies to heal damage. example, Your Cleric whomps a badguy and your ally gains a healing as the cleric channels the healing.

So, gone is the cleric being the battlefield medic who's sole job is to run around patching the wounds of their allies, rather they are a pivotal part of any band of adventurers who are good in a fight but can assist an ally stay healthy a little longer.

[NeonKnight]

I pretty much agree with you, loogie. LOTS of other great RPG's out there. In my opinion, WOTC pretty much killed the role playing in D&D and turned it into a number crunch fest. I was really hoping 4.0 would cure that but with 1 hp minions it doesn't sound like it.

I love the openness of the the original D&D version. Just a basic set of guidelines, a DM's opinion, and good imagination.

I actually like the minions. I think of them as the standard sort of generic adversary you see in a James Bond Movie, or Stormtrooper #43 in Star Wars. You know the guy, the one the hero in the movie merely fires a shot in their general direction and they die. That is the minion's purpose to be a minor speed bump.

[Badger]

ugh dnd...

i know its the most popular system out there, but its all a little bland for my taste... i find dnd to be to super powered and very directional... a lot like world of warcraft, but in the rping sense (eg.. if you a cleric, your job is to heal. you'll rarely get the chance to do anything else... and if your like me, and would like to make a character that isn't just a healer... your fellow companions complain for hours about how they think you should be healing them). I also prefer my battles to be a bit more then races to 0 hp. the system i play now has bleeding, broken bones, stun, penalties, all of which are in a series of tables that every hit uses... so it helps describe how combat is going much more...

that being said.. dnd is better then nothing, and i find that it fits what many people like playing, and if so, all power too ya. i'm a bit more hardcore in my rping, and hack and slash isn't all i want out of a game... just like to tell people that there are more options out there... (i had no idea there were good options out there till my friends turned me on to iron crown enterprises, now i'm pretty stuck on their systems)

loog... I've been playing d&d for almost 27 years... as for overpowered and directional.. it's all on taste and style and how you prefer to play.. you can make it as superpowered munchkin as you want... or as lowpowered and almost non-magical .... as for character's roles... Cleric is one of my favorite classes to play (as in I've probably had more clerics as characters) and none of them would be considered some mobile healer that spends majority of time healing... just ask my favorite PC cleric "Fist of Kord" .... he definitely does not spend a whole lot of time healing ... but dealing .. damage. I do agree that the HP system does have its drawbacks... I don't see a race for 0 hp necessarily, but I do get a lot of HP counting .... (players tracking the damage they do to enemy's to gage when they feel that enemy should be dead or dying.)

My experience with hit charts (D&D had its own version in 2e with Combat and Tactics) like ROLLmaster and Hackmaster and various other systems.... tends to bog down combat to a crawl as varioius charts are consulted and referred to and multiple rolls are needed to find out who hit where when and what happens to what degree.... I prefer (as a DM) to describe the action as we play freestyle.... its worked for the past 23 odd years with minimal complaint... but that of course is a matter of taste and style ...

I've played numerous systems, in various genre's of fantasy, sci-fi and horror... tho I prefer fantasy overall. D&D (in the beginning when we were kids and starting out it was all about killing, and power and treasure... those were fun days too, no doubt) has provided me with a rich and full world of history and RP ... mostly due to sticking with a RP first attitude ... We prefer to ROLE than ROLL .... for the longest time, the dungeon (the nickname of the room we use for playing) had a banner across the wall that read "If the story ever conflicts with the rules, the story should always win." ... just something to think about ... the system (which ever one you are playing) shouldn't define the story .. the system is designed to cover mechanics of game play ... a structure for which to base and define how the world works... it should never define how the story and RPing should go .... if it did... you might as well read off a "Choose your own Adventure" novel to your players...

that's just my opinion tho

[MadLetter]

I like it. It looks a lot cleaner, and looks a lot smoother to play. As an example, Wizards (my favorite character), has everything needed to play a Wizard PC in the Wizard section of the Player's Book.

Most wizard players moan and cry all the time now, because they can no longer insta-gib any encounter. I like the new wizard!

The game also now allows for PCs to play towards a goal (example being Demigodhood at level 31). This does not mean at level 31 you now are a god and continue to play. Nope, quite the contrary. Your character achieves your ultimate goal, and is then retired from play.

Only a nitpick here, it's level 30 and stop (no real L31, I think). I created about six or seven Epic Destinies on my own already!

Classes are better balanced against each other, and each class has a couple of different roles assigned to the them. Example: A character is either a Controller, Artillery, Soldier etc. This means (again the wizard), is best as either a controller or Artillery. A controller means that have abilities to control the battlefield and opponents, throwing up Flaming walls, moving your opponents, holding opponents in place etc. Or they could be artillery, throwing massive damage around etc.

One major gripe here!
The classes fall into one of four "roles": Controller, Striker, Leader, Defender.
The roles you named, are monster-roles, which define their abilities and place in combat.

There are lost more I can say about the game, but all I can say, is I am going to be a very very giddy little boy come Friday when I plunk down my big bucks (I still have no idea what the cost will be to me, but I suspect something like $100) and get my in the 'flesh' (so to speak) books for real.
So much love!

Amazon sells them for 55$ by now


A few notes from my side (over 14 years of D&D already under my belt, just so you know I'm not new ;] )

The game runs smoother (played four sessions already with D&D XP rules and characters) and somewhat better, I believe. It's way more balanced and makes way more fun. The power you get mean fun and you get a load of excellenct descriptions if your players are inclined to it (mine are, happy times!).

The whole mechanics are way better I think!

All in all I just want to add: superb ruleset!


Regarding loogies post:
The Number-Crunching is far less probelamatic than in 3.5, I think. As everything is more streamlined, you can get straight to the action of an encounter, be it social, combat or a skill-challenge.

Less "what spells do I pick today", which can result in down-time en masse whilst a player picks his spells, and more time to play and describe whats going on.

On a sidenote: I play Shadowrun, Exalted and WoD myself, so I'm not stuck in D&D Nonetheless it's one of the best Fantasy Games, I believe... if it's too bland: make your own world and bring colour into it. I'm doing that right now!


A last sidenote... for those who are interested in homebrewing stuff for 4th Edition, I add the link to a tool I am working on with a pal of mine: LINK

[loogie]

well thats just it, opinions, i got no beef with people who like dnd, and if its done right it is good... i'm just sayin in my experiences, i've had trouble playing anything but the role specified by a class.

(i like clerics too, and mages, but my thoughts on magic are very minimalistic to dnd standards)

i think in most cases the main issue i've had with dnd is the GM's... the people i played 3rd ed with knew the rules inside and out, but that was part of the problem. they wouldn't bend the rules for specific purposes...

(one of my character ideas was to have a wizard that casts spells through runes, not waggling his fingers and saying words... i just wanted a different method of spellcasting, but to do so, i had to start out as a regular wizard and then get some prof eventually to allow me to cast runes, and even then, every rune i made made me lose xp... so my DM convinced me otherwise... but to me, thats not how rping should work. i mean sure, a character should be limited by the world, but i don't think a character should be limited by a systems rules...)

in the system i currently use i'm in the process of replacing the current spell system with my idea, and its covered in the rules to allow me to create these changes.

i've played with a few great DM's and I know all to well to create a great session its more them then the system... but the system helps people like me make sense of my ideas and tie them into the world without accidentally making them to weak or powerful.

and even for you DNDers, Iron Crown Enterprises has some amazing resources for RPing regaurdless of system... i HIGHLY recommend the GM Law for new and old DM's alike (Gamemaster is ICE's Dungeonmaster)... half of the book is system inspecific and just gives hints and suggestions on how to run a great game... i've been GMing for years, and i still read in now and again, to help my players have fun in my games.