4e Core Rulebooks

[NeonKnight]

One major gripe here!
The classes fall into one of four "roles": Controller, Striker, Leader, Defender.
The roles you named, are monster-roles, which define their abilities and place in combat.

Nope no problem here. as I said I only got them last night, and haven't had a chance to read then through (even today ).

I too was at XP, though my entire weekend was taken up by the D&D Miniatures tournaments, except for a brief stint at the Dungeon Delve (I played the Tiefling Wizard).

What about a Ranger specializing in Ranged combat, would that not fit more into the 'Artillery' aspect thou?

[industrygothica]

Nope no problem here. as I said I only got them last night, and haven't had a chance to read then through (even today ).

I too was at XP, though my entire weekend was taken up by the D&D Miniatures tournaments, except for a brief stint at the Dungeon Delve (I played the Tiefling Wizard).

What about a Ranger specializing in Ranged combat, would that not fit more into the 'Artillery' aspect thou?

The book has the Ranger listed as a striker, for what it's worth. Though I do agree with you.

I think I'm going to like this new system (I've got the hardcovers on pre-order already, so I don't feel guilty for snagging the PDF's). The wizard took me forever to figure out, simply because I went into it looking for spell lists and per day charts, and didn't find any. When it finally clicked I was amazed at the simplicity and effectiveness. From the little I've seen, I do think that there needs to be more spell options, however; it looks like wizards may start getting a bit cookie-cutter after a while, imo.

Attacks vs. Saves are an interesting concept as well--one that I think will work well once you're used to it. There are so many different attack options for each class though, I'm afraid it may get a bit confusing at first just deciding on which to use.

In any case, I'm looking forward to playing and, more importantly, creating with the new rules. It promises to be an adventure!


-IG

[Badger]

What??? no Munchkin "role" .... What a JIP!!!

[MadLetter]

What about a Ranger specializing in Ranged combat, would that not fit more into the 'Artillery' aspect thou?

It would surely fit into the "Artillery" description
I only wanted to be a smart-ass I'm following every little information piece we got since about eight months ago... *laughs*

As for Wizard being a bit "shoe-horned" into Evoker, I might want to add that there will be more "wizard" classes out within a year: Illusionist and Necromancer have been said to get a complete class. Enchanter might get eaten by Psi, though.

[Badger]

besides munchkin as a role... don't forget "Complainer" "Rulehound" "Playerspouse" and the "Debater" ....

[Arkkeeper]

Still I have to say nothing will ever be as good as 2nd edition AD&D. After TSR everything went Downhill.

[Robbie]

I also have said "pdfs" and my books are on preorder. WotC didn't do a very good job of keeping the leaks apparently.

I'm still reading through the books so I can get a jump on the preorder and be prepared to run a game pretty soon after it comes in...In the meantime I'm rather dissapointed in a few things.

A) There is a LOT more cookie-cutter like aspects of the game...it seems more geared towards power-gamers than ever before...which leads to my second beef.

B) Its like an mmorpg took a paper dump and this is the ruleset. If the terms pull and aggro EVER find their way to my table I'll definitely be angry.

BUT...overall the rules do seem very streamlined and efficient, which for my gaming group may mean more time to focus on roleplaying as opposed to twinking.

[GlennZilla]

Gamer of 20+ years here. So my $.02 follows.

The rules are VERY streamlined compared to 3.5. It reads more like a miniatures rulebook than an RPG. Statements like the bullet point from the Flanking rules,

"To flank an enemy, you and an ally must be adjacent to the enemy and on opposite sides or corners of the enemy's space. When in doubt about wether two characters flank an enemy, trace an Imaginary line between the centers of the character's squares. If the line passes through opposites or corners of the enemy's space, the enemy is flanked."

No mention of the scene imagined in the mind of the player and DM, just the use of the miniatures and their grid. That was a bit off-putting for me.

One player in my group pouted when found out that there was no Druid. He had heard about the Elf/Eladrin being split into two distinct races and wanted to try an Elf Druid. Not having that available with the start of my campaign really irked him. So instead he's going with a Dragonborn Warlord. Jumping in with both feet I think.

For the folks that go on about munchkins, grognards, and number crunching should keep in mind that it happens in every game system. Ever go to a local store's Warhammer night? They make the D&D rules debaters seem like amateurs. D&D is simply the first, most popular and iconic table-top RPG out there. So it gets the lion's share of the less appealing player styles. My solution is to hold your tongue and try it with a group you trust and have a social contract with to not play in that manner. You'll have a good time and I won't have to hear the grousing over it.

In short, the rules are definitely changed. For the better in my opinion and I am anxious to get my game started after Father's Day.

[NeonKnight]

Yeah, Druid is indeed slated for a late book, as are races like the Half-Orc.

If the game has changed to the point of: We are putting a new PHB with more classes/races in it, that seems fine to me.

But the comments of the miniatures is a valid one. My gaming group has taken to calling D&D 4e as D&D Miniatures: The Role Playing Game (Of course 75% of us are also competetive DDM players, with myself being Team President/Captain of the VAN DDM Miniatures group.)

Now, I don't have a problem with using miniatures in game play, having used them for about 25 years now in my games, I always enjoyed the visual aspect, but I understand some peoples concerns.

I also cannot blame WotC for trying to make the game more appealing to the MMORPG people, as the game has lost a lot of it's player base to those people.

But no matter what, I am not going to say D&D IS TEH L33TN3$$ or it is TEH SUXX0R! or anything of the kind. I have played Paladium (very, VERY unbalanced in my opinion), and to a lesser extent GURPS or HERO. D&D was my first love, and I keep coming back to it.

[Arkkeeper]

See the problem is that D&D was originally about the DM made the rules, The rulebooks were small and light with very little rules in them compared to the new ones, it's like they combined a tabletop miniatures with a powerrpg and threw in a few dozen rules for no reason whatsoever. the point was that no DM played the same. everybody had their own style. now the rules are so strict it's not even fun for me anymore (not that I've actually gotten to play, the community for it sucks here.)

anyways I want to get a hold of these still where can I find these PDF's?