A vent of frustration

[TimPaul]

Hello, apologies this is a bit of a vent of frustration post. I'm wondering if you've got any advice for me. So Clichea has become the top of all time on TWO subreddits and 5'th on another. It's been featured on http://www.rpgbooster.com/ and I'm also to be interviewed for two other sites. Someone asked about buying a framed print and it's been tweeted about and is going around facebook. All of this and no finalized commissions. I've been told my site is sleek and well designed and I'm sure the commission button works, but still, no commission deals done. I've had 4 people contact me about buying a map and when I quote them a really low price I hear nothing back. If I can't get commissions from all this I might as well give up now.

Edit: I'm sure people would love to get the attention I'm getting and let me say I am very grateful for it, but the commissions thing is always in the back of my mind.

This is all normal.

I once had my comic book reviewed in USA today, as one of the top non mainstream comics to find at New York ComicCon. It lead to hundreds of hits to my site in a few days. I got 7 orders for the comic.

I get lots of map inquires, and most of them never pan out. Some I even tell them, they aren't ready for a map, or that if they are planning on having someone publish their book, they should let the publisher pay for the map.

It just takes time.

[Midgardsormr]

It should also be mentioned that the demand for fantasy cartography is low. While it's true that the supply of talented artists is also low, there are more than enough in the world to meet that small demand. As a result, it will take quite a long time to develop a base of clients who are actually willing to pay for work.

As a freelancer, I think it's helpful to think from the client's perspective. Do they expect to make money with their product? How much? How much of that potential profit can they afford to pay up-front for art assets? How much additional profit can they expect if the art is top quality?

Sometimes asking the client these questions directly can help them to realize the value that the map might have to their project. Other times it makes them realize that they'd be foolish to spend their money on it. A good commission should result in the artist making a living and the client getting assets that will increase the value of their product.

[TimPaul]

It should also be mentioned that the demand for fantasy cartography is low. While it's true that the supply of talented artists is also low, there are more than enough in the world to meet that small demand. As a result, it will take quite a long time to develop a base of clients who are actually willing to pay for work.

As a freelancer, I think it's helpful to think from the client's perspective. Do they expect to make money with their product? How much? How much of that potential profit can they afford to pay up-front for art assets? How much additional profit can they expect if the art is top quality?

Sometimes asking the client these questions directly can help them to realize the value that the map might have to their project. Other times it makes them realize that they'd be foolish to spend their money on it. A good commission should result in the artist making a living and the client getting assets that will increase the value of their product.

These are good points.

For me, I tend to charge just a little less for private commissions, versus what a publisher will pay. Simply because I'm doing the exact same work.

If all you want to do is make maps, at best, this is going to be something that compliments your income. More so if you just want to do fantasy maps of the RPG nature. There's other kinds of maps as well, with a whole different client base. Textbooks, lifestyle/shopping, travel magazines, boating magazines. I did a lot of maps of the great lakes for a boating magazine for a few years.

The most current map I did, was for a fantasy book, but that took place in an Alternate Earth Texas, in the early 1800's. The ability to create maps in different ways, to reflect the era they are from, is useful.

And building a reputation takes time, but also, putting out kick ass maps. The Creative Director I work a lot with at one publisher, has given me some great assignments, and it's gotten my name passed around to the editors and so now they will email the CD, and ask if her Map Guy is busy and can I take on some work.

But that took about 2 years, and many maps, where each time, I tried to deliver more. I'm lucky in that I work very well with authors to draw out more info, and never squirm over changes.

As such, the publisher has based some aspects of the marketing campaign around map reveals which give me extra attention.

But I also have to do a lot of social media posting and promoting to get the word out there. Thankfully, I'm also connected well to illustration community, so that helps. But again, building that network took time and work.

That's the part of being a freelancer most people struggle with. It takes longer and you have to do it.

[johnvanvliet]

should also be mentioned that the demand for fantasy cartography is low. While it's true that the supply of talented artists is also low, there are more than enough in the world to meet that small demand. As a result, it will take quite a long time to develop a base of clients who are actually willing to pay for work.

how true !!!!

it is even worse when what you do is normally done by undergrad "slaves" and some post grad students


for someone that has not been selling things

start out low
add just a few dollars to the cost of printing a poster

if that goes WELL add a few more , you WILL hit a point of drop in sales then bring the price back down

but getting "established " is the fun part

[Gamerprinter]

it is even worse when what you do is normally done by undergrad "slaves" and some post grad students.

In my experience industry cartographers are generally not "undergrad slaves", nor post grad students. Most RPG industry cartographers are established illustrators aged 30 - 50+. Most RPG cartographers have some history playing RPG games, and the majority of gamers tabletop RPG industry are 30+. Younger gamers are almost exclusively electronic and video game players (which has a much lower need for maps). RPG gaming is a niche industry and past its prime - few younger gamers are joining that aging industry.

I personally know most of the industry cartographers, those getting the majority of RPG map commissions, and none are younger than 30 years old. I am 52 years old.

I might agree that the majority of illustrators who are not doing cartography, such cover artists, characters artists, monster artists are probably fresh out of school, but that definitely doesn't apply to game cartographers.

[TimPaul]

In my experience industry cartographers are generally not "undergrad slaves", nor post grad students. Most RPG industry cartographers are established illustrators aged 30 - 50+. Most RPG cartographers have some history playing RPG games, and the majority of gamers tabletop RPG industry are 30+. Younger gamers are almost exclusively electronic and video game players (which has a much lower need for maps). RPG gaming is a niche industry and past its prime - few younger gamers are joining that aging industry.

I personally know most of the industry cartographers, those getting the majority of RPG map commissions, and none are younger than 30 years old. I am 52 years old.

I might agree that the majority of illustrators who are not doing cartography, such cover artists, characters artists, monster artists are probably fresh out of school, but that definitely doesn't apply to game cartographers.

I think they are talking more about private commissions vs industry assignments.

I charge to much for private commissions, and as such, don't get very many and some I turn down.

There's lots of people out there charging very little for these private commissions, and I imagine that it's being done by people looking to make a few bucks doing something they like doing. They have no interest in making a living at it.

[Gamerprinter]

While I've done a few private commissions, I've never seen doing private commissions as a viable business model - I'm sure its possible, but generally I steer away from that business (I don't know enough about that sector of the market to make a real judgement, however).

[a.coldyham]

In my experience industry cartographers are generally not "undergrad slaves", nor post grad students. Most RPG industry cartographers are established illustrators aged 30 - 50+. Most RPG cartographers have some history playing RPG games, and the majority of gamers tabletop RPG industry are 30+. Younger gamers are almost exclusively electronic and video game players (which has a much lower need for maps). RPG gaming is a niche industry and past its prime - few younger gamers are joining that aging industry.

I personally know most of the industry cartographers, those getting the majority of RPG map commissions, and none are younger than 30 years old. I am 52 years old.

I might agree that the majority of illustrators who are not doing cartography, such cover artists, characters artists, monster artists are probably fresh out of school, but that definitely doesn't apply to game cartographers.

Just going to chip in and say that I'm 17, am a player in one campaign and a DM of two others, all three with different groups of ~7. I put posters up for a lunchtime club and had to take them down because too many people came the first week and I almost couldn't cope.
I don't think my generation is particularly against tabletop RPGs, they just aren't as often exposed to them, and when they are it's most often through obscure TV references.
Sorry for the wordsplurge

[J.Edward]

I'll throw in a thought on that. For awhile it did seem like physical gaming was on a decline. But i've met a lot of younger people who were getting into board games and having game nights and that seemed to lead into table top and pen-n-paper rpg after a while. It doesn't 'seem' like Paizo or the others are having trouble finding players.
But that's just anecdotal. I couldn't speak to any numbers.

Private commissions can be quite good if you meet the right private clients. It's sometimes a gamble though.
You can get some very good repeat business if you work with good people and you get along well.

[Larb]

The internet has also done wonders for the PnP RPG industry I think. It's where I have played most of my games and it is a far more diverse crowd than your stereotypical RPer (a stereotype which is probably untrue I imagine).