WIP - Mordor

[- Max -]

@Sarithus. Sorry for the thread hijack, it was a random discussion that came in, but mostly because your map was inspiring enough to bring that in Anyway, you can't control how much feedback you would receive on a map and/or a WIP. Some people just don't post because they don't like the map, some don't post because they like the map and they don't see what to add, some probably don't have time to do it. May I advice to don't set your expectations about it too high? This will avoid some dissapointment at the end. I personally was suprised sometimes to see a very few comments on some maps I was quite proud of but I think the Guild is pretty good overall about feedbacks and comments

[J.Edward]

It was actually my fault for responding to what Sap said. My apologies Sarithus.

That being said, you have to accept that one's work sometimes goes unnoticed.
Some of my own work, that I felt was my best, goes by with little notice while other work that I just quickly knocked out gets a lot of attention.
Sadly that is just the way of things. When you first started this thread I was going to comment and give some negative feedback on the perspective but decided not to as I didn't want to discourage you. Perhaps I should have given that feedback.
I'm glad you changed the perspective. It helped.

There's no better place on the web for maps than the Guild. It really is a great place with a lot of great people.
Helpful people who love maps. If you want to work doing maps there really isn't a better place to be.
I do really miss the 'like' button.

[Chick]

Since we're on the topic of hijacking, let me hijack a little more.

LIKE --> on the Like button! Bring it back

[arsheesh]

Who said they'd be mirrored? Have people forgotten what WIP means?

Edit: Screw it, taking a break from this site.

Right. It would be great if my freaking map actually got some feedback. It seems like you map one **** map called Ganithes and everyone ignores you from then on. So far I've gotten 'Cool' for a map that I think might be the best thing I've done yet. Even constructive negative feedback is nowhere to be seen, instead my thread is being used in place of personal messages.

Sarithus I understand that you are upset but you are coming off as very confrontational to people here. Please try to keep a more cordial tone in the future.

[ravells]

One only has to read the many hundred (thousands?) of threads here to see that most people here are prepared to give constructive criticism. The fact that an individual map doesn't receive the comments YOU want may not be a reflection on your map but might actually mean that people are busy doing other stuff. To take it as a slight because YOUR map has not received sufficient comment is, to my mind, childish. Grow up. The fact that a thread that your map has been posted on goes in a slightly different direction is just a fact of the internet. It's like a real life conversation...subjects spark other subjects, that's part of being creative and human. If you really feel that not being the centre of attention on a thread is enough to drive you away then please go. Do take a break Sarithus, I think you might need one to temper your artistic temperament.

I am getting quite fed up with some of the pre-Madonna attitudes on this site of late.

[TaylorH]

"What was going on looked wonderful and was generating comments although perhaps more about the love everyone has for the subject matter than about your specific map." And we have a winner! Congratulations.

This thread has been an interesting read...

It's clearly not that Sarithus hasn't received "the criticisms he wants" as Ravells puts it, it's that for the majority of the thread there wasn't a single criticism good or bad, constructive or non-constructive. Basically a hijacking. But in all fairness those people have rightly apologized. Just leave it be people. It's fairly obvious why Sarithus got annoyed. He posted it to receive criticism, why else? Imagine you're doing some networking for some concept art or whatever and you're enthusiastic about showing your work or portfolio to all these people surrounding you. You present it to them and they basically shove you away and start having their own little conversation without actually referring specifically to the piece of work. And Ravells, to imply that Sarithus is being childish because he isn't receiving attention on his thread is ridiculous. It's HIS map, HIS thread and he would like some valued criticism from the community in order to better his work. In what way is that childish?

[Jaxilon]

What just happened here.... rage quit?

There is so much going on here at the guild that I don't have enough time to keep up so I sometimes feel like I'm coming in on the tail end of things.

What was going on looked wonderful and was generating comments although perhaps more about the love everyone has for the subject matter than about your specific map. That would come around soon enough and I've seen it happen many times. Personally, I'm happy with almost anything that bumps my posts but I get you wanted more.

I've always felt privileged when one of the established ones have given me feedback and even when it stung have tried to understand what they are saying and use it to help me become better. I've always wanted it but never expected it or thought it was owed to me. We have to remember everything here is by volunteers. Nobody is being paid.

And yet, time is in fact money and if someone takes time to post they are taking out of their finite resource of life and we should be thankful.

Anyway, I hope you feel better after taking a day off or sleeping on it or something but either way I support your choice. I would love to see your progress and you may have just inspired a monthly challenge for the near future which is kind of cool if you are interested in having an impact on the community. If not, I hope you find the support you need.

Edit: How did I get quoted before I posted? Whoa.

[Chick]

Here is a little tidbit from Psychology 101, and it applies not only to Sarithus's criticism but also to some people who have criticized his criticism of the direction this thread took.

When we take an action, we expect a reaction from others around us. That reaction could be approval, critique, suggestions, disapproval, counterproposal, lots of different things depending on the situation, but we expect things.

Imagine posting a well-written tutorial with all kinds of good information that you developed and decided to share with the community, expecting appreciation for it, and instead getting ridiculed.

Imagine posting a very nice finished map, expecting praise for it, and instead getting disparagement.

Imagine posting a map that you were very proud of in which you asked for critique and help, and instead getting totally ignored, with people discussing themselves doing the same thing you already did, as though your effort wasn't worthy of notice.

Any of those would make any of us angry.

But the anger doesn't come from what others did, it comes from our own expectations. If you post a tutorial expecting ridicule, you aren't angry when you get it. If you post a map expecting it to be ignored, you aren't angry when it's ignored.

The anger comes from our own expectations, not from the actual actions (or lack of actions) of others. It comes from unmet expectations.

I think Sarithus had a lot of expectations about what people would say here, and those expectations weren't met. It wasn't that other things were discussed, it was that what he expected wasn't.

Likewise, I think the criticisms leveled at him by others here come from their expectations about behavior, like if someone gets annoyed and wants to vent their feelings about it, they're expected to keep their mouth shut and pretend they're happy.

All that does is leave a lot of anger simmering below the surface, and I think you can see that anger in Sarithus and also in some of the others who have reacted to him.

Your expectations weren't met and you feel angry about it. Well, no kidding, that's life, so if you don't like the feelings, change your expectations, don't blame the people who didn't meet them.

[ravells]

@ Taylor. Threads do not belong to any one person. They are a conversation and conversations go in different directions - a conversation is not something which can be possessed I think Chick has the right of it about expectations. We are all volunteers here, nobody pays to use this site and they should moderate their expectations accordingly. It's really up to individuals to decide whether ride along with a conversation, or politely suggest to others that they take their semi-off topic conversation to a new thread or to have a dummy spit because it's not the conversation they wanted or expected. And yes, I think to have a dummy spit in that way is childish - the childishness came not in the message that he might have wanted to put across but in the language he chose to employ. I am sorry that Sarithus has felt that he has had to leave but, well, that's his choice. (I'm assuming that Sarithus is a 'he' - my apologies if I'm incorrect about this).

:: And I think this conversation has run its course. I am locking the thread ::