Require tips and info on Commissions

[J.Edward]

Since it's still open - do any of you all do work-for-hire contracts?
Those outside the US may not have to deal with these types of contracts.

[TimPaul]

Since it's still open - do any of you all do work-for-hire contracts?
Those outside the US may not have to deal with these types of contracts.

Work for hire contracts have a bad name, because they are often associated with low pay. The truth is, a work for hire contract doesn't have to come with low pay.

Work for hire depends on the project. Generally it's good when you are contributing to something, but not the final work. For example, I worked with an online off track betting company, to make fun portraits of the various horses that would race in the Kentucky Derby and other races. They liked my concepts and drawings of horses, but wanted their staff guy to do the final art, because was very good at copying that Zynga style of art, but not good at coming up with ideas. So I got $100 for each sketch, of which none took more than 20 minutes, and that's including any revisions. There were 26 horses, So I made $2,600 for about 9 hours of work. Not bad. They own my sketches. But what am I going to do with them? Nothing. I won't even show them on my portfolio. So in this case, I didn't care if they owned them or not. They were done digital, so there's not even a physical copy.

Another thing to consider, when you are hired to create something for someone else's intellectual property, you only own the exact visual expression you created. The information is owned by the person who hired you. So while you might draw a map of Middle Earth, Tolkein's estate owns that intellectual property. Technically, you should get permission to draw Middle Earth, but you definitely need permission to sell prints of it.

A lot of companies use work for hire, because it's the easiest method for them to control the IP. For example, if you were to make something for a Star Wars RPG, put out by say, Fantasy Flight Games, they don't own Star Wars. They have a license to from Disney/Lucasfilms to make the game. As such, they can't grant rights to anyone else, under contract, to make Star Wars products. So they often use work for hire to just simplify the process.

Most of my contracts with publishers, are not work for hire, but they do give life time, exclusive English rights. Same with private commissions. In general, I work hard to not give up my ownership of my work, unless the pay is right for that.

I'm currently working on a map for a high end liquor manufacturer, who will own the copyright, but they are paying me a nice sum to do so.

[TimPaul]

It's getting a bit off subject. But this is a forum where people are posting their work, in progress or finished, for a variety of reasons. I think it's perfectly fine to post a map, and say you are just sharing your work, not looking for feedback. You're done with the map, you aren't going too make any changes.

Unless you specifically say that, it's implied that you are putting your work out there for review and feedback. So anyone stating that they don't care what people have to say about their work, well, that's rude. You are expressing yourself, and want to be respected, then respect what other people have to say.

Naturally, you can say that if you want. But here's the thing. It creates tension and conflict. You opened yourself up to public scrutiny, willingly. How you react to it, says more about you. And in truth, people don't actually care about what others think, never have to say that. They just ignore it and move on.

But lets all be honest for one second. We do care what people think. Otherwise we wouldn't post our work. None of us are making maps so only we can look at them. So when someone says they don't care, there's always a bit of untruth to that.

Did I care I was singled out? Yes a little, but I wasn't hurt or crushed by it. More so, I was concerned with the lack of professionalism about it. He was right, that map isn't a good map. I'm not upset on that being pointed out. The thing is, I've done a lot of maps since, and they are better. So I wasn't upset about his criticism. If anything, it reminded me that I'm well behind on updating my site.

[tainotim]

Apart from the initial discussion, this thread is a gem! Would be great if it could be "saved" somehow, almost like some of the tutorials here, so it doesn't disappear into the dusty archives of old thread

Thanks for all the superb and well written explanations Tim Paul, they are very inspirational, and greatly appreciated. (So many superlatives)

Cheers,
Tainotim

[TimPaul]

Apart from the initial discussion, this thread is a gem! Would be great if it could be "saved" somehow, almost like some of the tutorials here, so it doesn't disappear into the dusty archives of old thread

Thanks for all the superb and well written explanations Tim Paul, they are very inspirational, and greatly appreciated. (So many superlatives)

Cheers,
Tainotim

Cut and paste those points you agree with into a word document for yourself. Don't just let information fade away, if you feel it's something you want to go back and refresh yourself with.

[tainotim]

Meant more for other people(future guild members I guess), who are curious about the subject and want to learn more. For me, this has been bookmarked and saved for a while

Cheers,
Tainotim

[J.Edward]

Thanks Tim. Do you offer them a contract or do you make amendments to the contracts you are offered?
As a side note, you have handled that situation with integrity and more decency than was shown to you, as did Max.

tainotim - I just screen capture the whole page whenever I find good info or advice.

[TimPaul]

Thanks Tim. Do you offer them a contract or do you make amendments to the contracts you are offered?
As a side note, you have handled that situation with integrity and more decency than was shown to you, as did Max.

tainotim - I just screen capture the whole page whenever I find good info or advice.

It depends. Publishers tend to provide a contract, for commissioned work, I provide a contract. I've taken simple contracts and modified them for my needs. I suggest finding a book on contracts for freelance artists. Some come with a downloadable, editable contract. The Graphic Artists Guilds Handbook on Ethical Business Practices and Pricing is a great place to start. It has information on many legal terms in contracts, copyright laws, and sample contracts.

Getting angry doesn't solve anything. It's to easy to get insulted by someone you don't even know what they look like. I talk with a lot of illustrators, who are always talking about how insulted they are when someone offers them a low paying job. Simply state your price, and if they don't want to pay that, move on. Or explain. But don't get so worked up you are ranting and raving about it. It's also to easy to wait around for an insult that isn't really there.

I've certainly made my share of mistakes in life, and been less the professional in other jobs, and had it follow me around for a while.

[Gamerprinter]

A lot of companies use work for hire, because it's the easiest method for them to control the IP. For example, if you were to make something for a Star Wars RPG, put out by say, Fantasy Flight Games, they don't own Star Wars. They have a license to from Disney/Lucasfilms to make the game. As such, they can't grant rights to anyone else, under contract, to make Star Wars products. So they often use work for hire to just simplify the process.

Funny that you mentioned Star Wars. When Wizards of the Coast still had the license for Star Wars, the WotC line developer for Star Wars contacted me about possibly being their print-on-demand guy for Star Wars maps. After I responded with my interest to do that for them, I got another email from the line developer that said "Oops, we can't do that, it turns out the license prevents third parties (like me) to produce Star Wars products since I didn't have the license", so though they initiated the conversation, they didn't read their own license limitations that stated what they were asking was not allowed.