Imrith

[Wolram]

Thought I would have a go at a city map. My first two maps have had some perspective to them but I want to try and do one more in plan.

Possibly biting off more than I can chew, already I'm wondering if I should increase the resolution to get the detail in that I want.

I've attached my outline sketch and then a sort of first step towards drawing the map.

I'm struggling to get the cliffs to feel like they have much depth, but without perspective I don't know how to get around it. I think maybe it will work once I get some shadows on.
IMRITH 1.jpg

IMRITH2.jpg

[Larb]

Good luck with it - it looks like quite an ambitious map but it should be worth it.

And yes, once you have some shadows painted in it will help a great deal with the perspective.

[woopingwooper]

I like the outline you have. The geography is quite visually striking, and you've used it creatively to make a unique city structure. This looks like this will be an impressive, but very long project. If you raise the resolution much more, I think you'll only increase the length of the project for a fairly minor gain. The scale of the buildings in the area you blocked out seems about the right size and detail for a map of this scale.

The cliffs look nice so far, and shading will definitely help. You can also use shading and lightening of the water to represent a changing water depth, which really helps to define the base of the cliffs. You've added a couple small rocky outcrops rising from the water along the edge of the cliffs. I've found that the presence of these make the bases of cliffs look more natural.

Looking forward to seeing where this map goes!

[Meshon]

Can I just say that your opening sketch just makes me so happy? I really like it when people post "the first" sketch. It really helps to give a complete view of the process. The little elevation down in the corner there? Awesome.

What you've done of the cliffs so far looks good, I think you'll be able to pull that off. I wouldn't worry about producing too much depth, it's a top-down view after all. You may find that you can use the shadows of buildings and geography later on in the process to enhance the elevations.

Nice start!

cheers,
Meshon

[Wolram]

Yes, I think I'll leave the resolution alone then, the file is probably going to get quite big anyway :/

Small rocky outcrops, yes, I need to try this out around some of the "test" cliff areas.

I'm thinking of making some of my own "stamps?" for the buildings instead of drawing them all, might help make it a bit more manageable.

Before I get too carried away I do need to learn a bit more about layer organisation, and using masks properly. My last map became very tricky to manage I had so many layers, so if anyone knows of some good tips I'd love to hear them!

Thanks Meshon! Yea that initial scribble is so much fun, all those happy little drawing accidents turn into details and stories, I could do scribble maps all day

[Meshon]

Wolram, I think that managing layers might be a matter of practice. See, I tend to add a layer when I need a new thing, want to try something out, notice a problem that needs covering and, sometimes, because I accidentally clicked the new layer button. My method for keeping on top of it so far has just been to remember to give a descriptive name to every new layer I create. I recently did a very simple cave map in Illustrator and ended up with 33 layers, mostly with names like "stone walls", "stone wall fills", and "stone wall shadows".

The thing that really inflates my layers is two-fold I think. First, I don't know what I need going in, so I add new layers on the fly as I figure out a new thing that needs to be added to the design process. I imagine as I get more practice I will need to do less of those impromptu "fiddling around" layers and have a cleaner layers list. Also I'm a layer hoarder. It's not unusual for me to end up with a half-dozen layers or more down at the bottom that are locked, with visibility turned off. Mostly I never use those again.

So if your computer isn't protesting too much at the number of layers I wouldn't be too concerned about that. However, if you want to talk about masks you could post some specific questions as they come up. And then maybe people other than be would answer and you and I could figure out masks!*

cheers,
Meshon

*I use masks quite a lot, for various reasons, but I'm well aware that there are a number of things they can do that I'm uncertain of at best.

[Wolram]

Good advice there meshon. One of my biggest problems is the pressing undo will also go back to previous layers. In that way I keep drawing on the wrong layer by accident! I will have to see if there are settings to stop this. For a map this big I don't want to be plagued by layer issues! The reason I say about masks is because I was reading about non destructive editing, and it sounds like a life saver! I will give them a try, I know who to come to if I get stuck then

[J.Edward]

Wolram - I do that all the time.
I'll be talking to someone on the phone, go back a step and end up on the wrong layer and go to work on it. Later realizing.
One thing I do now if I know that I'll be going back steps and then starting again and don't want to start back on the wrong layer - on the layer I want to work on I'll just quickly change the opacity from it's current state [100%] down to 0 and then back to normal, thus forcing a new step so I won't go back to a different layer.

It has helped... when I remember to do it that is.

Now, regarding your map.. I think it looks like a very good layout except for one thing that jumped out.
The King's House would overlook the prison and barracks. I guess it depends on the kind of King that you have there but I would think most Kings wouldn't want to be forced to view the prison all the time. Another thought - wouldn't the King and the barracks be up in the fortress?

Where the king's house is would make a great place for a prison and/or a guard barrack. It would be well defendable there.
That being said, I do really like how you have the land laid out. Should make a wonderful map when you're done.

[Pixie]

(I'm naming myself the geology police for a little while, just so that I can offer this advice)

So, you've got a river emptying into a small basin surrounded by rocky outcrops/ cliffs. You've labeled it Big Bay, but comparing to the size of the buildings you plan, it is really pretty small. Small, as in crater of a dead volcano small.

That's what I see in your draft. It doesnt' need to the be Halarnoth kind of supervolcano. Just an averaged size one, which was eroded until only part of the crater walls are standing and which was brought to sea level and seaside by whatever tectonics. That would explain the formation.

Option 2 is to look at it as coastal karsts. Dunno if you've ever been in or seen pictures of Laos/Vietnam/South China.. (just write "karsts" in google and you'll find lots of inspiration)

Option 3 (which was my initial thought) is to fill that Bay with sediment. Leave only a winding strem meandering in low flat lands, marshy and not very productive (sandy and salty), where the populace would grow vegetables/rice and build shanty towns, while the affluent folks would live in the mesa style rocky outcrops. In this case, it would be a challenge to place the mercantile quarters of the city.

If you don't find any of this to be helpful, just ignore it. After all... there's no geological police.

[Wolram]

J.Edward, that is a good point indeed. Either my king is stupid or very very brave. I thought that the fortress would be separate from the city as a defensive measure. It would be very difficult to lay seige to the city, or the fortress, while the other stands to flank a sieging army. So I want to have a separate keep within the city, while the fortress will be more like an outpost (and not as big as I sketched it). I'm going to have to move those things around, perhaps the prison would be better on the island! No escape...

Pixie, you've provided me with some excellent food for thought there. I think I've already moved on too quickly from the sketch stage! I will go back to the drawing board and try to think it through a bit better and spend some time creating a more convincing geology.

I'm off on holiday for a week out in some mountains so I'll return with bags of inspiration!!!

Thank you all for your help