What is an appropriate pay range for this/these?

[hephalumph]

First off, I know that the amount a cartographer expects to be paid will vary from individual to individual, based on their level of skill, the tools they use, and whether or not this is a hobby or profession for them. And that's the main reason I am asking for an appropriate range instead of specific quotes. I have no idea if I will even be able to afford what I'd like to have done, and so am trying to get a rough (very rough) estimate before I get too far into putting together a proposal of sorts.

I am developing a roleplaying world, currently using 5th edition D&D rules. I have done a LOT to create the world the game is being played in, modifying not only the core races but classes and equipment, and many other minor things as well. Aside from the system/mechanical development, all of these things have been created with 'fluff' or flavor as well. And it is growing to the point I think I might try and market it as an open campaign world. But to do that, I will need high quality artwork including good maps.

There are three continents which would each need a decent map drawn. And within the main continent, 13 separate kingdoms plus the 'Crown's Land' (essentially a 14th much smaller country, which is home to the High King who rules over all the other kings). All 14 of which would also need decent maps drawn. And currently, I have marked out 34 larger cities and a few dozen smaller towns - at least some of which will need detailed maps drawn; the number could vary drastically, depending on cost and the artist's desires - a minimum of 10, I'd say, and up to all of them; 60 or 70+ town and city maps.

And, if I decide to make it more of a campaign book instead of just a setting, I would like a few battle-maps; outdoor and indoor maps set to a 1"=5' grid. Again, this number could vary drastically, but I would estimate at least 10 and up to 40 (from 1 per 2 character levels, up to 2 per character level).

Now, I know a LOT of these maps, I could find online; I could even find many which I could legally use in a published book. But I would much rather have a consistent style and feel that comes with one artist/cartographer (or a very small group of them). I could also cudgel together various resources myself - I am a very amatuer artist and map mapker, but I am not wholly without skill. But I would much rather have something that shows I am serious about this, if I do decide to move forward. The work of a true professional.

So... what would a reasonable (rough) price range be?

• all 3 continents (global map)
• 3 continental maps (the basics already exist, but they need refinement and to be re-done in a more professional manner - and most features are open to adjustment/editing).
• at least 10 and up to 60/70+ town and city maps (and/or possibly 10 or a dozen highly detailed, and the rest rough maps).
• at least 10 and up to 40 battle maps (both indoor and outdoor).

I'd also be open to offering a percentage of sales, in lieu of some or all of the up-front payment. If that were done, what terms would you consider reasonable?


Also, in addition to the pay range(s) for the various maps; what would be an appropriate time frame?

[J.Edward]

Hey hephalumph...
That's likely to cost you a lot. I mean A LOT.
Lowest bid - $2300, but from a part time map maker - if each map were $100, which is low.
A professional, who can produce consistency across all those maps and do them in a timely fashion, will be a lot more.
You would be in the several thousands of dollars for this, especially considering copyright or licensing.

EDIT - I was basing this on the wrong thing - 3 continent maps, 10 [at least] of town/city maps and 10 [at least] battle maps - 23 maps.

[hephalumph]

Hey hephalumph...
That's likely to cost you a lot. I mean A LOT.
Lowest bid - $2300, but from a part time map maker - if each map were $100, which is low.
A professional, who can produce consistency across all those maps and do them in a timely fashion, will be a lot more.
You would be in the several thousands of dollars for this, especially considering copyright or licensing.

I kindof figured it would be a lot. But this would be for a (hopefully) profitable venture; which one cannot do without some investment.

You're indicating $100/map would be the lower end of a professional (someone whose individual maps are good, but who isn't necessarily consistent), as far as I can tell. What would the average to higher end of professional run?

Would it be unreasonable to expect a 'discount' rate or 'bulk' rate for someone being commissioned to do so many? I'd think that the guarantee of that much work would warrant it, but then, if I knew for sure I wouldn't have posted in the first place.

[- Max -]

What would the average to higher end of professional run?

A LOT, as J. said.
A world map, 3 continental maps, 14 regional maps, 10-60 city/town maps, 10-40 battlemaps, I might be wrong but I've never seen a RPG with such an amount of map (except probably some top industry RPGs with a s*** ton of add-ons - meaning that the maps were made all along the years). Don't want to tuin your dreams here but lowering the number to a very few essential maps at the start would sound more realistic, or you'd probably never be able to pay them, especially if you're looking professional quality.

[J.Edward]

I kindof figured it would be a lot. But this would be for a (hopefully) profitable venture; which one cannot do without some investment.

You're indicating $100/map would be the lower end of a professional (someone whose individual maps are good, but who isn't necessarily consistent), as far as I can tell. What would the average to higher end of professional run?

Would it be unreasonable to expect a 'discount' rate or 'bulk' rate for someone being commissioned to do so many? I'd think that the guarantee of that much work would warrant it, but then, if I knew for sure I wouldn't have posted in the first place.

The amount for a professional will vary quite a lot, as it depends on many different factors for each map maker/illustrator.
One thing that wasn't stated, I don't think, which for me makes a large difference, is the size, color or B+W, level of detail, style of work, deadline...
All of those figure in to what would be charged.

Some will work out a discount with you if there is a solid basis for believing that you'll guarantee additional work - ie previous work done with you, upfront deposit on certain quantity of work, etc.
Usually this amount of work would be done with a contract - to protect the interests of both parties involved.
I have done discounts with several clients I work with. But we had a relationship from previous work so there was trust inherent already.

It will really depend on the illustrator and the work required.
An illustrator still has to make a certain amount per amount of hours worked. So if the amount of discount will eat into that, then it gets harder to do the discount.
I would estimate that for a full page color map with a decent amount of detail and an easy slow deadline - you would be looking to pay on average $300 or more per map with most map makers/illustrators.
Like I said though, there are a lot of factors to just ball-park it. Some maps might be easier and quicker, and could be priced lower.
Some, like detailed city maps, would cost much more - even discounted - as there is a lot of work that goes into city maps, depending on the style.

[Wired]

Not really much I can add here from the ranks of the semi-pros other than agreeing on what J.Edwards and Max have already stated. Depending on the size and style and level of detail you desire I'd say it'd be realistic to calculate with an average of at least €300 per map her (most certainly if you want them in color; that'd mean a bill of ~€35.000). Looking at the highest possible number of maps you'd desire (117), even super fast mapping machines like Max (that's supposed to be a compliment, Maxime ) would probably need months of constant work to complete them all. Someone drawing them additionally to their main/day job would probably need easily in excess of a year.

[Schwarzkreuz]

I agree too, you should scale down significantly.

[Caenwyr]

Just a wild idea here. Why don't you task multiple mapmakers for this project? The cost will be roughly the same whether you use one or more cartographers (I'm afraid you'll have to cut back on the number of maps regardless), but the work will be done much, much faster. There won't be as much consistency between the different maps asxwhen you went for a single guy, but maybe this is a good thing? A quirky mix of styles suggesting the maps where created over a long span of time, or by different (in-story) cartographers/academies/...

You could also go for one cartographer per map type, if this style mix is not your thing (I would love it, but that's personal). One for the cities, one for the countries, one for the continents and one for the world map. The difference in style won't be a problem at all this way.

[hephalumph]

Well, first thanks to all who have replied.

Second, as to the scale - of the overall work, not the map scale, lol; I *do* realize this is a LOT of maps. It is not something I would expect to be done in weeks or even a couple of months. And I do realize there would be a good deal of investment. But though a couple mentioned otherwise... I have, in fact, seen more than one published campaign setting book released with similar numbers of maps. And they are expensive. And they are impressive. And they are, generally, considered worth that expense because of how impressive they are.

This would be a setting published more or less system-independent, with guidelines on fitting various pieces within the rules of the most common systems (PF, D&D, Gurps, etc.). It would include, depending on the cost and final size of the volume, adventure hooks and small scale adventures to run. It would include the lands, the races, custom items, the history and fluff, and so on.

All that said, while I realize what this entails, in a general sense, I had shoped to get a bit more concrete input on numbers. A "*LOT*" could mean different things to different people. So far I have, more than $100/map, and around €300/map as the only figures. I suppose that can give me a decent frame of reference, but I had hoped for a bit more in the way of price ranges.

To clarify a few points raised -

I am open to a small team versus an individual. I would probably ask each person to work on a specific region, or a specific type of map, to help maintain that continuity and consistency.

Not all maps would be the highest level of detail. Some would be B&W, some full color (definitely the global and continental full color, outside of that it would vary depending on the importance of each map). Some would be small sketches, some fairly detailed. It would vary; but the number of lower detailed and/or B&W maps would be the majority, I would expect.

And since I can't give precise numbers of maps, which noes need detail and/or color, and which don't - I do get that it is that much more difficult to put a price out there. But if you could, I'd love to get some ranges, something like, "If I were to agree to work with you, I'd ask between $X and $Y per map." or "I'd probably do the whole thing for roughly $Z, depending on the details we work out."

I do get that there are variables. I myself work in an art/craft industry. So I am not asking you guys to say, "I charge exactly $10 per square inch of map I draw" or, "I charge $20 per hour, and I can do 1 map in 10 hours." But it seems to me that in all the searches I have made, and all the threads I have browsed, rates are almost NEVER posted or discussed openly. And to my way of thinking, that is the wrong way to go about it. You need to let people know, at least a rough estimate of what they should expect to pay. And if you don't have that rough estimate, you're almost definitely cheating someone - either yourself, or your customers, on a regular basis.

So again, if even a few of you could give me some of those rough estimates, I would greatly appreciate it!

[Caenwyr]

I'm not a specialist when it comes to commissions here on the CG, but I've been following them for a while now and I've found that most clients choose to go for blind quotes through e-mail. This allows cartographers to set their price without risking someone of similar skills underdigging them by a few bucks and winning the bid.

That being said, I think the 100 - 300 USD window gives a realistic idea of what you might expect, depending on the required detail and the skills of the mapmaker. Simple maps made by beginning artists might even be a bit lower than that 100 USD mark, while very big, very complex maps done by the best of the best can set you back quite a bit more than 300 USD a piece.

Personally I've just started taking commissions myself, so you have a pretty good idea of where I would be situated pricewise. I would be happy to be part of this project (as in a group effort) and I believe I would be a valuable asset, but I would never be able to take on ALL these maps, at least not if you want them before the end of the century .

What I'd suggest is to take on a coordinating cartographer that can create the world map and perhaps the continents based on your instructions, and a team of skilled others that can start work on the countries as soon as the outlines of the higher level maps are done. You might consider tasking one country cartographer per continent to keep the style consistent within each continent (that, and the border regions. You don't want those to mismatch, unless that's a style you're going for specifically).
City maps can be tackled by others yet - it requires an entirely different skill set anyway. They also don't have to wait for input from the higher levels, since city maps are so different in scale that all they'd need is some info from your side on surrounding features (bends in rivers, coastline features, terrain details that define the city limits, etc) and specifics about the city itself (style of buildings, where to put the castle/temple/...) and they can get started right away.