Yera_Novel Map

[XCali]

I'm finding it difficult to explain what I mean about line work or black and white ink maps.

This is one I did a few minutes ago. Its very crude and very simple. The basic differences are:

• There are far fewer lines per square inch than in your map. White space separates the elements and makes them easier to identify.
• The lines are different weights for different purposes - the thick one being the road, a thinner one for the coast etc.
• There is a lot of commonly accepted symbology going on. By that I mean the coast is echoed by fainter broken lines that grow outward from it, and the forests are little more than woolly blobs with sticks for trunks, yet both these things are instantly recognisable for what they are.

I've never done an ink map before, so this is my first one too, and I hope it helps to try and explain what I was trying to say about the development of your own ink map

Attachment 97612

EDIT: btw - I'm not saying that you should draw like I do - just suggesting that you might like to consider leaving more space, giving more thought to line thickness, and using less detail in areas that are currently a bit crowded with detail - forest patches rather than single trees, for instance... etc

Don't get me wrong, I get what you are saying and were my trees just normal trees, I wouldn't mind for a moment to represent them the way you did. But, the fact of the matter is, every single tree depicted on the latest line art version is a special kind of tree. I spend a lot of time in the second half of my book making clear that there are these out of the ordinary trees. And that makes it even more difficult to leave extra white space, because now I need to add even more forests that consist of normal trees. Quite a conundrum if you ask me.



EDIT: For argument's sake, I do have a question. Okay, the way my trees work and a certain element that my continent is a continent of a lot of mountains and big mountains. I am wondering about the amount of lines. Because, if I can't remove any of the bigger trees(all are placed with purpose) and I can't remove even a single mountain. And I already tried to minimise the amount of lines I used on them. Then I beg the question, how? How can I use less lines if the trees and mountains already shown need to stay? (For arguments sake. I am pondering good heartedly about this one. Though for the moment, with the paramatres I have given, I can't yet perceive an answer. )

Edit 2: Text make mood and intent hard to read. So, this is mine with this. Happy to brainstorm with you (I think you are awesome.) though I am baffled at the challenge of my particular conundrum. Hehe.

[Mouse]

Then I have failed you, XCali.

I am unable to explain any better than I already have, since my forte in life was never as a teacher of things.

All I can say is that you are attempting to show far far too much intricate detail in the map. It simply isn't possible to have every special tree and every special mountain marked on that size of map and given the sheer number there are, unless you do all of them an awful lot smaller than they are, and take all the inner detail out of the trees so that they are just outlines.

Above all - in line art you must leave sufficient gaps between things of different nature to allow them to just... 'be', instead of getting all mixed up together with each other by being individually to large and touching each other, or being too close for the eye to tell apart.

I am sorry, XCali. I can't think of a better way to explain it.

[XCali]

Then I have failed you, XCali.

I am unable to explain any better than I already have, since my forte in life was never as a teacher of things.

All I can say is that you are attempting to show far far too much intricate detail in the map. It simply isn't possible to have every special tree and every special mountain marked on that size of map and given the sheer number there are, unless you do all of them an awful lot smaller than they are, and take all the inner detail out of the trees so that they are just outlines.

Above all - in line art you must leave sufficient gaps between things of different nature to allow them to just... 'be', instead of getting all mixed up together with each other by being individually to large and touching each other, or being too close for the eye to tell apart.

I am sorry, XCali. I can't think of a better way to explain it.

Give yourself some credit, Sue. If it weren't for your ability to teach, my Nessa'Mor map wouldn't have turned out as good. And I mean it.
Also, you have not failed me. What are talking about? *shakes head*
By nature I am inquisitive and curious and I REALLY like brainstorming with others. I really do.
I see it as a puzzle that we collectively chip away at. And I find that rather fun.
And please know that I REALLY REALLY appreciate you brainstorming alongside me on my maps. That is one of the reasons why I think you are an awesome person
(Did you read the EDIT 2 on the previous post?)
Now, this map might be a challenge, but I like a challenge. Sure, the Morning Trees can't be removed and because there need to be a lot of sheer mountains make that even more difficult. Though, I have to say, aside from my happy accident of having a monster shaped out of my mountains(which I amplified when I realized, and want preserve) The nature of the story at that time of the book has a certain claustrophobic feel to it. And that is a good thing. But it makes removing any mountains hard. Thus the conundrum. But, don't you worry yourself for a moment. This thread is for brainstorming.

[Chashio]

Just adding to the brainstorming... I read through a lot of that last stuff about the line art version. If you can't remove items and you have a small size limit and you have to add a bunch of labels, it's going to be difficult to achieve clarity and everything else. You need to find a way to create visual space and contrast, though, so that the viewer can sort out the details more easily; right now, a lot of it looks the same... has too-similar of a density/weight. [like this chunk of reply]
Mouse suggested varying the line weight of different elements, and that's a great suggestion. I would also probably try taking that further and think of it more like a graphic novel illustration or a block print type of work... these often have some large areas of ink with the details and highlights etched out with white 'linework' which is another way to provide contrast between elements so that the page and everything on it is more legible. Just try playing with it [on a copy]... make the mountains dark. or the trees. or the water. Maybe just slap heavy shadows on things and see if that helps.

[XCali]

Just adding to the brainstorming... I read through a lot of that last stuff about the line art version. If you can't remove items and you have a small size limit and you have to add a bunch of labels, it's going to be difficult to achieve clarity and everything else. You need to find a way to create visual space and contrast, though, so that the viewer can sort out the details more easily; right now, a lot of it looks the same... has too-similar of a density/weight. [like this chunk of reply]
Mouse suggested varying the line weight of different elements, and that's a great suggestion. I would also probably try taking that further and think of it more like a graphic novel illustration or a block print type of work... these often have some large areas of ink with the details and highlights etched out with white 'linework' which is another way to provide contrast between elements so that the page and everything on it is more legible. Just try playing with it [on a copy]... make the mountains dark. or the trees. or the water. Maybe just slap heavy shadows on things and see if that helps.

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. I'll try and give it a go.

I think having time constraints made me nervous to experiment.

So, I decided for the launch, I'll go with the color version with a few more labels. And in doing that it will take all of the weight off of the line-art version so that it can grow and change naturally. Then I can try out the stuff you and mouse said

[Mouse]

Just one last note before you dive in, XCali (and I'm really happy that Chashio dived in with some far more imaginative suggestions than mine )

Just because the image is going to be small, it doesn't mean you can't use lines that are much, much finer than the ones you used in the first try. Think of it this way. If you work on the map at 4x the size its going to be reduced to, then you can still go right down to 4 pixels wide as the narrowest lines on the working map, because they will still be 1 pixel wide when the map is reduced. And if the thought of that horrifies you, also remember that when images are reduced everything is antialiased, so any jaggedness you may be imagining if a line is only 1 pixel wide on reduction just simply doesn't happen. In fact, reduced images are often a lot nicer to look at simply because any tiny error caused by a momentary twitch in the fingers is also reduced and is far less noticeable than in the original

[Chashio]

Yes, good point.