WHITESTONE of Tal'dorei (CriticalRole)

[XCali]

Hi, everyone.

I had a little time on my hands and so I thought I'd create a higher def version in my own style of the Whitestone map that Matthew Mercer drew by hand for the Critical Role campaign.
EDIT: Drawn Map reference

This is my first Top down city map.
(Just to avoid confusion, I have 4 ISO maps, one of which I have not posted here and is the other map of my novel. Then one top down map of an underground cavern.)

Anyway, I've gotten quite far in the last two days. But, as this is my first top down city map, I am treading a little bit in the dark. So, any feedback is welcome. (I am dreading placing shadows for all the buildings.)

Whitestone_Remaster_byOmri.jpeg

[QED42]

I like what you have so far, especially the buildings. I'm sure it's something you plan to remedy in the future but at the moment I would say that the green texture is a little "noisy" compared to the rest of the map.

[XCali]

I like what you have so far, especially the buildings. I'm sure it's something you plan to remedy in the future but at the moment I would say that the green texture is a little "noisy" compared to the rest of the map.

Thanks It's a start.
The green texture is the trees texture, so for my purposes, I'm quite happy with it. I'll probably give some body to the ground texture as I go, it might balance it out. But, I'll see how it goes.

[Mouse]

I agree with QED about the green texture. Its not so much the noise for me, but the unbroken oneness of it all. Tree cover is rarely ever completely even - not even in a plantation, where rows are clearly visible from above.

Perhaps before you are done with this map you would consider using groups of individual tree symbols and a nice soft grass or earth texture as a base underneath them?

Shading on the houses isn't such a bind. Just do them the same way as you did the cliff shading

[XCali]

I agree with QED about the green texture. Its not so much the noise for me, but the unbroken oneness of it all. Tree cover is rarely ever completely even - not even in a plantation, where rows are clearly visible from above.

Perhaps before you are done with this map you would consider using groups of individual tree symbols and a nice soft grass or earth texture as a base underneath them?

Shading on the houses isn't such a bind. Just do them the same way as you did the cliff shading

I'll take note of it. But I do find it extremely odd that I often see maps of people better at mapping than me using big unbroken forests without individual trees. I would appreciate clarity on the matter, because I have seen so many examples of it.

(You know I like making forests out of individual trees. So it's not like I'm reluctant in the matter. In this map's case however, I'm recreating a roughly drawn map by a GM. And there was an unbroken forest drawn.)

And the shading! Hehe, I don't know. The cliffs are random terrain, so flaws in the shadows are actually welcome. But houses are hard lines and precise. That's why.

[Falconius]

The lack of gates in those walls is unproductive. It's like building a barrel but leaving out slats. Or making a bucket with no bottom. Also given that the three entrances into the city on the lower left part of the map are so close together those could all be made into one hole in the wall instead of three. I have no idea what the single property is off to the right, but it seems odd for it to have its own hole. If it was important enough to the city to warrant it's own entrance way why would they not have included it in the walls? And if not, why would they have bothered giving it it's own gate/hole? Also I'm curious how this city gets it's water? I'm assuming wells and reservoirs? By the same token how does it get its food? It's a city in the middle of an uncut forest, what is the purpose of this city? Why do people come there, what do they do for work?

I'd say that if you are making the map more high def it wouldn't hurt to also address any of it's logic issues as well.

[XCali]

The lack of gates in those walls is unproductive. It's like building a barrel but leaving out slats. Or making a bucket with no bottom. Also given that the three entrances into the city on the lower left part of the map are so close together those could all be made into one hole in the wall instead of three. I have no idea what the single property is off to the right, but it seems odd for it to have its own hole. If it was important enough to the city to warrant it's own entrance way why would they not have included it in the walls? And if not, why would they have bothered giving it it's own gate/hole? Also I'm curious how this city gets it's water? I'm assuming wells and reservoirs? By the same token how does it get its food? It's a city in the middle of an uncut forest, what is the purpose of this city? Why do people come there, what do they do for work?

I'd say that if you are making the map more high def it wouldn't hurt to also address any of it's logic issues as well.

All are valid questions. And I agree, there are a lot that will help if addressed.

This is a remake of a scribbled map. So far I've stayed relatively close to what was drawn.
Matthew Mercer's drawn Whitestone. Reference if you will.
And a later,
Basic redone map that was on the WIKIA

So, that is what I had to work with. I do, however, plan on making it better and adding the things needed.
(If I remember correctly from the story, it sounded like there were outlying farms. But, it's not indicated on the map, so who knows where they are. And I think there are quite a few 'wells' represented on the map, even if basic. Also, something that became apparent in the story as I listened, was that Whitestone is quite an isolated city. Maybe that is why gates are not as important? Though, that's me speculating. Hehe.

--
Question, I kept the layout mostly as is on the reference, but how do you suggest that I go to work on the gates? I'm not sure how to. This is my first top down city map.

[Falconius]

You could go with large towers over the holes. Or build a four tower gate house with the towers you have there by adding 2 more and the appropriate walls. Or even just put a wall over the holes with something to indicate the gates underneath. Like maybe dashed lines showing the path through the wall? My preferred method to use is to make them their own significant structures, so like the four tower idea, a box of four walls with towers at the corners.

But I feel you, using a reference which is incomplete is always a problem.

[Mouse]

I've figured out what the problem is with the trees!

Its a tree texture all right, but you can't actually identify the individual trees when you look at the map full size because the texture is waaaay too large!

I only realised why it looked so wrong when I glanced again at the thumbnail. If you just look at that for a moment without clicking it, you can see the shapes of the individual trees, but... each tree in that texture is about the size of a whole block of houses in your city.

If you reduce the scale of your tree fill to about 1/4 the size it is (or even less than that), then it should look a whole lot better

It would look even better than that if you also carefully carved out roadways and small clearings for at least a few fields. Falconius is right about the need for roads, gates and nearby farmland, or the residents of your city will soon die of starvation. I know you are trying to recreate someone else's map, but surely it would be ok to improve the believability of the setup?

[XCali]

You could go with large towers over the holes. Or build a four tower gate house with the towers you have there by adding 2 more and the appropriate walls. Or even just put a wall over the holes with something to indicate the gates underneath. Like maybe dashed lines showing the path through the wall? My preferred method to use is to make them their own significant structures, so like the four tower idea, a box of four walls with towers at the corners.

But I feel you, using a reference which is incomplete is always a problem.

That is a good idea. I do, however, want to ask for examples, maybe? I don't know how it looks. I tried something, but I have NO clue if it is in the right direction.

I've figured out what the problem is with the trees!

Its a tree texture all right, but you can't actually identify the individual trees when you look at the map full size because the texture is waaaay too large!

I only realised why it looked so wrong when I glanced again at the thumbnail. If you just look at that for a moment without clicking it, you can see the shapes of the individual trees, but... each tree in that texture is about the size of a whole block of houses in your city.

If you reduce the scale of your tree fill to about 1/4 the size it is (or even less than that), then it should look a whole lot better

It would look even better than that if you also carefully carved out roadways and small clearings for at least a few fields. Falconius is right about the need for roads, gates and nearby farmland, or the residents of your city will soon die of starvation. I know you are trying to recreate someone else's map, but surely it would be ok to improve the believability of the setup?

Sue! That is great advice! Thank you!!

Okay! Here is one where I reduced the size of the pattern from 3000x3000 to 1000x1000 and it looks better.

Now, before I post. The next bit fans of the show might get out their pitchforks. I am creating this map for the cast and the fans. So, I want to get it right, but at the same time make it better like you said.

Here is to hoping. *lift shoulders pleadingly*
THE FARMS!!! (Though Matt did say something in the line of farms. So, maybe.)

### Latest WIP ###
Whitestone_withFarms_byOmri.jpeg