[NEED ADVICE] What is the ballpark price range for getting a map designed?

[DanielHasenbos]

I was absolutely floored by the prices you guy's mentioned while reading through this thread, looks like I might actually be able to afford that custom Voolf or Daniel Hasenbos map to hang on my wall one day. I've seriously considered commissioning some of my favorite artists from the site to make maps for me to decorate my house with just because I'm a huge fan but never in a million years imagined paying less then 6 or 7 hundred dollars for one.

Unless you're super fast you'd be working well under the minimum wage in my country for those prices.

Why would you commission one of us for a map? You make some really great ones yourself!

Ô Canada, minimum wages and cost of life vary greatly.
Depends what they mean by a standard sized map. Is it for a book, A4, a poster.... ?

Yeah, that's something I wasn't sure of as well. For me, the prices given on the first page apply to A5 (14,8x21cm or 8.5x5.5"). I don't know what standard size means for other people.

[Wired]

A5? It seems I really have to jack up my rates...

[ThomasR]

I guess me too... which is not bad news

[aeshnidae]

I don't want to further hijack this particular thread but would anyone be interested in a post explaining basic contract terms, which terms to include in a simple contract, how to write a cease & desist letter, etc.? In my day job I'm a contracts attorney for a university and regularly deal with intellectual property (patents, copyright, know-how, etc.). I do a significant amount of pro bono work for artists, mostly to get them paid but also to stop IP theft. Because of US attorney licensing requirements, my actual practice (the ability to provide legal representation to a client) is limited to the State of Maryland but I am more than happy to share my knowledge. Just last week I was searching the forums for an appropriate thread but didn't find one (my search was not exhaustive so it's entirely possible I overlooked a thread).

[J.Edward]

I don't want to further hijack this particular thread but would anyone be interested in a post explaining basic contract terms, which terms to include in a simple contract, how to write a cease & desist letter, etc.? In my day job I'm a contracts attorney for a university and regularly deal with intellectual property (patents, copyright, know-how, etc.). I do a significant amount of pro bono work for artists, mostly to get them paid but also to stop IP theft. Because of US attorney licensing requirements, my actual practice (the ability to provide legal representation to a client) is limited to the State of Maryland but I am more than happy to share my knowledge. Just last week I was searching the forums for an appropriate thread but didn't find one (my search was not exhaustive so it's entirely possible I overlooked a thread).

I think that would be super cool and helpful to a lot of people, aeshnidae.
Definitely, add some of your knowledge and experience.
The contract process can be confusing for artists, but it seems like it is also for smaller clients as well.

Relating back to the earlier discussion...
I'd add some comments on prices and stuff right now, but I am actually writing up a contract at the moment to get it out asap.
So maybe I can add more later.

One quick thing i wanted to add though...
There is often a hard ceiling for how much money you can get for maps, in general, within certain industries, such as rpg products.
It can go up a lot with video game companies, if you can haggle a good deal.
It is still somewhat lower than you'd think for some publishing companies, not related to fantasy.

And a thing many do not want to address maybe...
Many clients aren't as solidly interested in the specific style as much as they are the lower price.
Meaning, they will often go with the lowest bidder.
I get turn downs and rejections monthly for that reason.
Sticking to your guns about prices can be really hard, especially if you do this full time and really need that income to pay bills.

[Diamond]

And a thing many do not want to address maybe...
Many clients aren't as solidly interested in the specific style as much as they are the lower price.
Meaning, they will often go with the lowest bidder.
I get turn downs and rejections monthly for that reason.
Sticking to your guns about prices can be really hard, especially if you do this full time and really need that income to pay bills.

^ This.

That's (one of) the reasons I don't do a lot of commission work. People DO talk to each other, and if you're willing to lower your price and devalue yourself once, clients will expect you to do it again. I run into it all the time in my day job.

[Soraya]

I'm about to break a taboo here but heck.

Here are my low prices for standard size maps without fancies.
- 150 € for a black & white map.
- 250 € for a parchment with few colors.
- 350 € for a full color map.

If the map is larger, I ask for more. If there are illustrations needed, this is extra too.

If the client needs the rights to the map, he has to pay extra and I'm talking multiples of the base price.

With these kind of prices, I lose a lot of commissions (maybe it's because I'm not good enough but I'm not bad either) and I still think my prices are not high enough.

I'd recommend not to go lower than that. You can also set yourself an hourly rate and estimate the time needed to complete the map but all in all, the one thing not to forget is that you sell art, not beans, it comes at a price.

My two cents (sic).

Hey Thomas! This was really enlightening!
So what do you consider to be "fancies" out of curiosity?

[ThomasR]

@ aeshnidae : thanks a lot for the offer, I usually tweak a contract I signed with a publishing company wondering if I don't harm myself anytime I change a word

@ J.Edward : the industry part is so true ! As I said earlier, RPG sales are not video games sales, not at all ... but as a cartographer, it can get you some more private commissions from fans of the RPG. We play a game where we sometimes do a work for cheaper in the hope of getting more work afterwards.

The "lowest bidder" part is also true. Clients often need maps, not necessarily pieces of art, hence their versatility about style (reference being what they like but not a hard reference). I'm lucky enough to have a job that leaves me some free time if I plan it well enough, I do not rely only on illustrations to feed my family AND I sometimes accept lower fees (not too low) to stay in the game, to keep a map on the shelf and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Still, one needs not to stray too far from one's set prices because it would mean hurting the whole business.

EDIT : Ninja'd by Diamond. That happened to me once, I turned down the one asking for the low price. I like doing maps, doing those or others is fun as it offers idea I would not have had but it's no charity unless I decide so.

[ThomasR]

Hey Thomas! This was really enlightening!
So what do you consider to be "fancies" out of curiosity?

For me, fancies are especially embellished elements (custom compass, custom border or custom icons) or illustrations. For instance, the crest or the rose.

[Soraya]

Those are great! I love doing custom compasses myself. Illustrations can take a decent amount of time, so that makes me curious as to how you charge extra for those. Like a fixed price or an hourly rate?