Election Methodologies Discussion WARNING: HERE BE DRAGONS!!!

[jfrazierjr]

another thing would be to have equal amounts of money for all candidates running, no fundraising, and limits set for how much they are allowed to spend campaigning.
(ie: no more than 1mil on paper ads, 2.5 mil on transportation, 3mil on tv ads) <thats an example, I have no clue what actual values would be, but just so you understand what I mean..

I was thinking the exact same thing just yesterday. Would it be nice to see someone become elected that was not already a gazillionaire? Someone the average person could relate to, a dentist, a teacher, a highway construction worker, or a restaurant manager.

[Karro]

Karro, as a follow up to your post 17, I have always been in favor of the 17th Amendment being kicked to the curb. Being more of a states rights person myself, I would have no problem with a system whereby the Senators were appointed to protect the rights of each individual state rather than by the people's popular vote. This method worked fine for 130+ years. Ah well.. I can keep dreaming...

Hmm. Honestly, I'm not sure what the implications of this would be. Whether we vote for our own Senators or the State Legislature which we voted for appoints our Senators... I don't know quite what difference it would make. Either way, they still think they're above their constituents.

another thing would be to have equal amounts of money for all candidates running, no fundraising, and limits set for how much they are allowed to spend campaigning.
(ie: no more than 1mil on paper ads, 2.5 mil on transportation, 3mil on tv ads) <thats an example, I have no clue what actual values would be, but just so you understand what I mean..

Yeah, I think I'm with you--that would seem most fair--but the Supreme Court apparently disagrees... they think it would be a violation of Free Speech if one party were not allowed to spend more money than the other party, or if we limited what sources the party could use for funding. (i.e. the SC swatted like so many gadflies the few reforms of McCain-Feingold that would have done something even approaching this).

[CC_JAR]

I was thinking the exact same thing just yesterday. Would it be nice to see someone become elected that was not already a gazillionaire? Someone the average person could relate to, a dentist, a teacher, a highway construction worker, or a restaurant manager.

yeah, sorry if this is endoursing a candidate, but it doesnt matter at this point,
but I saw Sarah Palin as that person, she had only been governor for 2-3 years, before that a mayor of a small town. she wasn't our average politician, she really was an average joe, and didnt have corporate america at heart.

but then again Obama kind of came from nowhere too..

[Karro]

I was thinking the exact same thing just yesterday. Would it be nice to see someone become elected that was not already a gazillionaire? Someone the average person could relate to, a dentist, a teacher, a highway construction worker, or a restaurant manager.

That sounds like a great idea--the realization of the great American Dream. But those Dentists, Teachers, Highway Construction Workers and Restaurant Managers better work d**n hard to learn everything that is necessary to learn and gain the expertise necessary to run this country and not be a major screwup. Governing this country--whether as a lowly city counselor, state legislator, Congressperson, or President, is an awfully complex and difficult proposition. These days, your average everyperson is simply uninformed enough to even know how our government works, much less have anything approaching the skills necessary to run it. The Founding Fathers knew this was the case, and that's largely why they designed it the way it is.

[CC_JAR]

That sounds like a great idea--the realization of the great American Dream. But those Dentists, Teachers, Highway Construction Workers and Restaurant Managers better work d**n hard to learn everything that is necessary to learn and gain the expertise necessary to run this country and not be a major screwup. Governing this country--whether as a lowly city counselor, state legislator, Congressperson, or President, is an awfully complex and difficult proposition. These days, your average everyperson is simply uninformed enough to even know how our government works, much less have anything approaching the skills necessary to run it. The Founding Fathers knew this was the case, and that's largely why they designed it the way it is.

that is true, though most of that is the fault of our failed school system. Here in Western NC (Burke Co.), our high schools are where we start learning chemistry, civics, economics, Calculus (if they even teach it)(dont even think about trig), and other subjects that are being tought to middle school students around the world.

[jfrazierjr]

[quote=Karro;37429]as from what I've read about it I don't think it's really all that fair and will disproportionately tax the poor;/quote]

Note, I can't say I have studied the thing in great detail, but it if you(or anyone), has not looked at it, you might want to get into it more detail. High level, here is what I understand:

• Anyone below the poverty level would in effect pay zero taxes.
• Everyone else would only pay(federal) taxes on the things they buy.
• Drastically reduced complexity. The most involved tax complications would take minutes instead of hours/days.

Granted, i am sure it has it's flaws, but the current system isn't working to well, at least not for me...

[Karro]

yeah, sorry if this is endoursing a candidate, but it doesnt matter at this point,
but I saw Sarah Palin as that person, she had only been governor for 2-3 years, before that a mayor of a small town. she wasn't our average politician, she really was an average joe, and didnt have corporate america at heart.

but then again Obama kind of came from nowhere too..

It's true, both come from humble backgrounds. The difference is in the level of expertise and knowledge the two have gained. One has a significantly greater level of education and expertise, especially as regards the Constitution itself, than the other. That's what I meant by my above comment about any given everyman that wants to run for office having to work d**n hard to have the skills and expertise necessary to work well when/if they achieve the office they seek. It's hard work, and guts and chutzpah alone will not a good public servant make.

[CC_JAR]

It's true, both come from humble backgrounds. The difference is in the level of expertise and knowledge the two have gained. One has a significantly greater level of education and expertise, especially as regards the Constitution itself, than the other. That's what I meant by my above comment about any given everyman that wants to run for office having to work d**n hard to have the skills and expertise necessary to work well when/if they achieve the office they seek. It's hard work, and guts and chutzpah alone will not a good government person make.

true but in this circumstance, and this may be going into testy waters again, you have to look at just how they got to where they are, and the choices that they make even now. I'm not going into details, you can look for yourself if you're interested, but one suddenly got sponsored to go to college, the other worked their way through.

[jfrazierjr]

That sounds like a great idea--the realization of the great American Dream. But those Dentists, Teachers, Highway Construction Workers and Restaurant Managers better work d**n hard to learn everything that is necessary to learn and gain the expertise necessary to run this country and not be a major screwup. Governing this country--whether as a lowly city counselor, state legislator, Congressperson, or President, is an awfully complex and difficult proposition. These days, your average everyperson is simply uninformed enough to even know how our government works, much less have anything approaching the skills necessary to run it. The Founding Fathers knew this was the case, and that's largely why they designed it the way it is.

Oh... I understand your apprehension, but I think the debate/campaign process would ultimately let the people weed out the idiots (of which there may be many) Besides, no matter your political affiliation, can you really look at Washington and say "most" of those bozos up there have your individual best interest at heart above their own? I can't.

[Karro]

that is true, though most of that is the fault of our failed school system. Here in Western NC (Burke Co.), our high schools are where we start learning chemistry, civics, economics, Calculus (if they even teach it)(dont even think about trig), and other subjects that are being tought to middle school students around the world.

I have yet to figure out this dichotomy: how is it that we have one of the worst public primary and secondary education systems in the world... and yet one of the best (if not the best) collegiate and university systems in the world. I don't know, but the facts speak for themselves.

Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly. Our early public education needs to be overhauled. Unfortunately, by all accounts, "No Child Left Behind" wasn't the thing that will do it.