I need some ideas.

[jesterman]

Okay, so for this I just want to have a discussion of ideas. I am trying to create the following:

Storn's Haven (As shown on my Nord map, posted below) is pretty much a whole kingdom carved into a mountain (or rather, extinct volcano) that is made up primarily of granite. It is an absolutely massive mountain filled with not only a huge castle carved into it but individual houses, tunnels, cathedrals and etc. Only about 30-40% is not dug into the mountain and is from the marble mines just beneath the mountain.

If this is all done in a Post Roman age and society, though the specific culture itself is primarily influenced (in my creating of it) as Early Japanese or pseudo Chinese. Given the technology at hand, as well as the guidance of a more advanced race, how might these people do such a feat (what creative and efficient ways could they do this) and how would a culture like this develop?

I will also take any creative ideas or sketches to interesting examples of what it may look like. I want this to be scientifically realistic, because although this is a magical world, my magic follows rules, and can only truly be carried out by these rules. In other words, the Nordins (people of this planet) cannot carry out magic like this willy-nilly, though they are somewhat aided in the mind and body for creating massive structures such as this one (something unique to their race, even more so than ours at times). To use magic, they would have to use it through moss, plants, animals or the earth itself, which pretty much technologisizes it. So please, nobody tell me to just have Gandalf come in and start shooting lighting everywhere.

Also, one more thing. Part of the creation of this city involved one of the Mithralls, (the race aiding the Nordin's in recreation to their society after the Age of Darkness) and this particular Mithrall woman is notable for her ability to draw natural magic simply through dancing. In a mythological sense, it is said that shortly after the Age of Darkness, she danced upon the top of the mountain all night for three days, causing it to crack and for metals, granite, marble, and salt (which breaks down rock and is useful in that sense, and in this day and age is considered extremely valuable) and this would naturally aid the proccess inwhich the Nordins would be able to dig their way into the mountain and create a safe haven.

oh, and Storn's Haven is named after a species of bird that resembles a large raven that inhabits the mountain, if you wanted to know.

So if anyone has some creative ideas or notes of mistakes I should not make (literary holes that would make it unrealistic in a physical sense) please tell me. I love the creativity of these ideas.

[Azélor]

Contrary to the popular fiction like the Moria or the dungeons in RPGs, building cities underground is a bad idea.

1- Lack of fresh air: unless you have a way to produce oxygen underground, you rely on ventilation from the surface and the further you are from it, the less oxygen there is.
It gets a lot worse if you add people breathing and using fire as a lightsoruce, for cooking and other thing. Lighting a big fire underground is a bad idea because it pump the oxygen and produce a lot of smoke that has to go somewhere. To solve this, you might need chimneys for the smoke to go up, like in a normal building. But you also need chimneys to go down wherer they would pump the air to the underground. I'm not sure this is a practical solution has building that many chimney deep underground would be complicated.

2- Dew could be a problem in large room with many people. It would start to rain inside. It's probably just an annoyance through.

3- Pressure: the deeper you go, the more rock and dirt you have over your head. The walls and ceilings need to be able to support that.
You are basically dealing with the same problems the Egyptians had with their pyramids but it's a lot worse since pyramids are tiny compared to a mountain.

[Falconius]

"Carved into the mountain" means what? That it's underground like Azelor suggests? Or that it's like carved into the cliff sides like around the crater etcetera?

There are some pretty cool underground things people have made in this world probably most famously the Wieliczka Salt Mines. But there also a few underground "cities" that were made specifically for defensive purposes or when hiding.

[jesterman]

Okay, I see your points.

Truthfully, the dew problem doesn't bother me, and might just make things even more interesting (I kinda think the idea of rain underground would be really cool and useful for my novel)

With the chimney thing, given that it is a volcanoes and has a rather natural chimney (plus several well placed cracks) I'm not to worried about that problem as much.

On the other hand, your points on ventilation are very important. I hadn't even thought of that. In most examples, the houses are doug out from the exterior of the mountain, which means that they, though dug out of the rock, still have access through doors and windows and such to the outside world, and the houses get smaller and smaller you get lower into the mountain. Unfortunately, though this applies to the houses, mines and areas that ARE placed below the ground and have very little ventilation. Naturally, I cannot simply use the natural crater and cracks, because those are likely producing toxic gasses through fires and human produced options, which means very little oxygen could be drawn through them.

One option, that might work partially (I wouldn't say this completely solves the problem but helps) is that there are going to be lot's of natural air pockets that will contain springs (water that has eat away at the crater and pushed their way downwards, flowing out) and, a highly possible option is to use an oxygan producing moss or something similar that might help a little but that doesn't completely solve the problem.

Unfortunetly, I am yet to come up with an option that completely solves this problem. Does anyone have ideas?

Pressure is a massive problem for me, and I am running low on ideas to solve this problem. If I could maybe incorporate some of the "metals that flowed out of the rock as the Mithrall woman danced" (that mythology thing) and used it to somehow build supposrts, or a crystilization proccess in the granite and marble which might help strengthen it, but unfortuatly all of this "helps" but I doubt it would completely solve the problem completly, or even close. That is (unfortunetly) why I need some ideas.

[jesterman]

I'm also tempted to make a magically oxygen infused crystal one onlly has to smash to receive oxygen, but that seems like a cop out and to easy (plus, unrealistic and too conveinient)

[jesterman]

hmm. Probably carved mostly on the exterior similar to the crater etcetera . . . though mines, cathedral's and keeps and hiding places will undoubtedly reach far further.

[Azélor]

With the chimney thing, given that it is a volcanoes and has a rather natural chimney (plus several well placed cracks) I'm not to worried about that problem as much.

I'm not a geologist but It doesn't not sounds like a good idea to me.
You need them to go all the way to the top and not to be obstructed.

To solve the problems, you either need technology, magic or a different configuration. Or you could ignore the problem, of that is an option. Many fantasy setting prefer to do this and many readers probably don't care.

You could build the kingdom in a caldera instead, under or over the ground.
A caldera is the remains of an ancient volcano and can be quite large.
There you can have that lake in the middle.

[jesterman]

I suppose building the kingdom in the caldera would make the most sense. I would also work because multiple caldera's connect to extensive natural caves and cracks where mining could take place. I would still have some houses/huts/cottages just on the exterior of the mountain, and mines that connect around (not inside, because they would collapse) the base. I'm also wondering, if with the lake idea, a palace could be carved out of the center, causing a watery basin to flow around it. The look would be pretty impressive (it would give it the appearance of a castle rising out of the water) and this water would naturally come through rainfall and siphon out through the basin in natural springs.

[Falconius]

There are some craters that have a slightly higher center than the main part of a basin and basically form a ring lake around the center island (center-ish it really depends on the angle of impact I think).
https://binged.it/2KF8SGP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_crater

[jesterman]

oh, that is good to know. I will have to make sure to use that. this gives me some good ideas. I think I can start making a sketch of what i want it to look like