How to choose a tool for mapping?

[nichendrix]

I'll personally always recommend Photoshop as a mapping software. It takes a little time to get really comfortable with it, but once you do and combine it with a graphics tablet, there is no limits to what it can do for you. This is also a fantastical place for learning this stuff; I can honestly say that everything I know about using Photoshop today, and I dare say I'm getting pretty handy with it these days, I have learned from the tutorials on this Guild. I knew practically nothing about it going in.

As far as vector software goes, I for one can give a warm recommendation for Affinity Designer. I use AfDe for pretty much all my vector needs and I really like it. I kinda prefer it to Illustrator, it just is less troublesome with some essential little things.

I know a lot of people use the ProFantasy software for mapping, but I've never really used any of those, with the exception for Fractal Terrains which I own for the occasional inspiration boost. So I'm not the best person to say yay or nay on them. Many people do like them though, so I doubt they are too terrible.

My very biased personal view on this, feel free to ignore this PS nut

@Kellerica I have enough skill with Photoshop and GIMP to do most of my digital drawings and paintings, but I could never translate my skills to mapping, but to be really sincere, I didn't put enough time/effort on it, but in the end the few things I've tried to do on PS took me substantial time, which is my main limiting factor. I have at most 8 hours a week to make the maps for my game sessions, most weeks I would have less than that. I may be that if I get the right tutorials and invest some time to it, I can be faster using PS for mapping, but out of the box, I think it is the more time consuming of them.

Greetings!

Sorry I didn't see your posting earlier.

There are a couple of crucial points that you've defined too vaguely for me. You write



and



but you don't make quite clear what your goal is. Why do you want to make maps? The things I quoted suggest that you might want to make maps to use in RPG gaming, but that's not necessarily the case. I would give you varying answers to your base question, depending upon the purpose of your maps.

If you plan to run one or more RPG campaigns as game master, then you will need to make the best maps possible in the least time possible so that the map(s) is/are on the table at your next gaming session.

If ... like the three members of our project group ... you're publishing and all members of the group have equal responsibilities for text and cartography, you also need to complete maps quickly. In that case, all three of us use the same software programs and we map according to a binding style book to map the maps look as though the all come from the same source.

Some guild members make maps on commission for RPGs without text responsibilities. They have various deadlines to meet. Some have to produce a map in a week's time. Others have three of six months or maybe even a year. Those with short deadlines may need different software than those with long deadlines.

There also are lot of guild members who aren't involved in RPGs and who make maps simply for the joy of making maps. They post their work here and elsewhere and that's its end line. Such cartographers are fortunate in a sense, because the only deadlines with which they have to be concerned are those that they set for themselves.

If I were a cartographer with long deadlines or one who simply was making maps for the joy of doing it, I would stay away from cartographic programs like MapForge (more or less successor to Dundjinni), Fractal Mapper 8 or Campaign Cartographer 3+. I have licensed versions of and have used all three of them myself. Many people have done magnificent work with these programs. But I've never seen a map anywhere made with any of them that in my judgment approaches the quality of the best Photoshop and GIMP creations posted here at the guild. If time is on your side, my recommendation is that you go with Photoshop or GIMP and add whatever other graphic programs that you prefer for secondary work.

However, neither the other members of the Vintyri Project nor I have time on our side. We sometimes need to complete two to three maps in a day's time to drop into a campaign accessory or an RPG in decent (we hope) quality albeit below masterpiece level. Our main goal is strategic usability rather than the beauty of the masters. We've found that we've had no choice but to use a program like MapForge, Fractal Mapper or CC3+. However, which of these programs is best for you depends upon your needs, usage and budget.

One issue goes across all three of these programs in their current versions: They are 32-bit applications, making them quite dated technologically – late 20th century. They can address the resources of a modern PC only to a limited extent. Most frustrating is their ability to use only 4 GB RAM when your computer many have 16, 32 or 64 GB RAM. Photoshop and the GIMP are available in 64-bit versions.

My interest in mapping is mostly to use on my RPG games, though I've done some maps by hand as an exercise. If time wasn't a factor, I could easily use Illustrator, CorelDraw, but the process is very time demanding if I want it to look good, which is why I'm looking for a more plug and play approach since I'm playing on a weekly basis.

The main problem I have with the dedicated mapping software I've seen is that they seem to focus on medieval fantasy settings, not the sci-fi stuff I usually play, If I have to make all textures and props and everything I use from scratch I would end up needing more time than I have available.

By your description it seems that FM8/9 is the way to go, as it has a 64-bits version to be released soon. Unfortunatelly it is not possible to tweak with the Smart Building tool so it does sci-fi stuff as well as fantasy settings. Unfortunately I've never seen sci-fi (starship, cities, "dungeons") made in FM8, in this regard CC3+ have quite a gallery of stunning maps/deckplans available.

[heruca]

Nichendrix, have you seen the sci-fi content available for MapForge? Between that and the free sci-fi artwork that you can download from sites like rpgmapshare.com, you should be all set to crank out a bunch of great-looking sci-fi maps in very little time. The sci-fi genre has been largely ignored by most other mapping apps, and that's exactly why I made a point of not doing the same with MapForge.

[nichendrix]

Nichendrix, have you seen the sci-fi content available for MapForge? Between that and the free sci-fi artwork that you can download from sites like rpgmapshare.com, you should be all set to crank out a bunch of great-looking sci-fi maps in very little time. The sci-fi genre has been largely ignored by most other mapping apps, and that's exactly why I made a point of not doing the same with MapForge.

I'll take a look at it as soon as I get home. Many thanks for sharing these links.

EDIT:
I've just did a quick look on the links during my lunch break and I loved the contents of both. Do you know if these tile packs for RPG Map Share are for exclusive use with it, or I could somehow import them on FM8 or CC3+? If it cam be used by the other programs, I'll probably ending up buying most of them.

[heruca]

Do you know if these tile packs for RPG Map Share are for exclusive use with it, or I could somehow import them on FM8 or CC3+? If it cam be used by the other programs, I'll probably ending up buying most of them.

All the content on rpgmapshare is free to download; there's nothing to buy. The files are typically in PNG format, so they can be used with most mapping apps or image editors.

[nichendrix]

All the content on rpgmapshare is free to download; there's nothing to buy. The files are typically in PNG format, so they can be used with most mapping apps or image editors.

The content of rpgmapshare I understood that it is generic and not application dependant.

What I really wanted to know is if the content for MapForge (the sci-fi packs on the first link) can also be used in FM8 or CC3+ in any form, because in their entries it stated on their description that they only work for MapForge.

Theare some very interesting tiles there that I can totally see me using a lot on my maps.

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[heruca]

What I really wanted to know is if the content for MapForge (the sci-fi packs on the first link) can also be used in FM8 or CC3+ in any form, because in their entries it stated on their description that they only work for MapForge.

The Add-On format is exclusive to MapForge, but much of the content is available elsewhere, if you really need to use it in other apps. For example, you could buy the sci-fi tiles direct from Pwork Wargames, and they'll be delivered as PDFs. Use a utility to strip the images from the PDF, resize them to the resolution you need, and organize the resulting files into easy-to-navigate folders to keep everything organized.

Another example: The content from Maker Games can be purchased on the Roll20 Marketplace as downloadable PNGs.

[nichendrix]

Another example: The content from Maker Games can be purchased on the Roll20 Marketplace as downloadable PNGs.

Are all Roll20 content sold as download able png?

If so it would be great, because most of the sci-fi content on MapForge is also available for Roll20.

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[Mark Oliva]

By your description it seems that FM8/9 is the way to go, as it has a 64-bits version to be released soon. Unfortunately it is not possible to tweak with the Smart Building tool so it does sci-fi stuff as well as fantasy settings. Unfortunately I've never seen sci-fi (starship, cities, "dungeons") made in FM8, in this regard CC3+ have quite a gallery of stunning maps/deckplans available.

Just for the record ... I'm not trying to sell any one program. As Heruca has pointed out, Map Forge has an excellent set of tools for sci-fi type maps.

If you use FM8 or FM9 with the Fractal World Explorer (included in the FM8/FM9 package) and download and install the free CSUAC and the free Dundjinni Archives into FM8 or FM9, you'll also have an excellent set of tools for sci-fi type maps.

If you use CC3+ with Cosmographer (a separate ProFantasy add-in that must be purchased) and download and install the free CSUAC 2 and the free Dundjinni Archives into CC3+, you'll also have an excellent set of tools for sci-fi type maps.

[nichendrix]

Just for the record ... I'm not trying to sell any one program. As Heruca has pointed out, Map Forge has an excellent set of tools for sci-fi type maps.

I didn't think you were trying to sell me any of the programs, you just presented me with your view of each of them, which was exactly what I asked for. Your comments gave a lot to think about the mentioned programs.

If you use FM8 or FM9 with the Fractal World Explorer (included in the FM8/FM9 package) and download and install the free CSUAC and the free Dundjinni Archives into FM8 or FM9, you'll also have an excellent set of tools for sci-fi type maps.

I've downloaded the CSUAC and DA sets for all platforms available in the Vintyri Project website. They seem to have an insane amount of texture and symbols, even tough the amount of symbols specifically for sci-fi and modern stuff seems to be rather small compared to medieval fantasy, but thaylt assimetry is part of the gaming life.

I whish that there were more examples of sci-fi maps made with FM8, things like cities/towns, starship deckplans, battlemaps, "dungeon" maps, etc., specially maps on the better quality side, since the few I've seen were mostly on the low quality side.

If you use CC3+ with Cosmographer (a separate ProFantasy add-in that must be purchased) and download and install the free CSUAC 2 and the free Dundjinni Archives into CC3+, you'll also have an excellent set of tools for sci-fi type maps.

Unlike FM8 where I'm yet to see a high quality sci-fi stuff, I found that there are plenty of high quality examples of all kinds of maps made with CC3+ and Cosmographer, from cities, to buildings/dungeons, to starship deckplans, to star maps, there are examples of all kinds of things with a good portion of them on the high quality side.

In the end I'm leaning to start with FM8/FM9 and Astrosynthesis, most people I've consulted here and on other fóruns, says it has a friendly learning curve, the cost of the bundle is less than half the price I would pay for CC3+, and it has a 64-bit version on the near future.

Even so don't think that it would take very long to get my way on CC3+'s GUI. Since I use AutoCAD since R11 for DOS version and also used FastCAD back in the day. I've started using CAD in the early 90's when I was just a kid my mother conscripted to help her in her architecture projects when the deadlines are short and the work still nedding to be done were plenty. Back when I was younger and had far more time, I would use AutoCAD to make most of my maps, then would export them to Illustrator or Corel Draw to add color and effects to the map. But nowadays I don't have that amount of time anymore.

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