WIP of my massive fictional DEM based on the Middle Earth DEM and Pixie's DEM method.

[Gilligan]

Hi guild.

So about almost 2 years ago I began the creation of constructing an entire fictional DEM of my favourite imaginary nation, this task was no small feat and i am by no means done, yet I have got to the point wherein i am comfortable in showing my progress to the guild for any thoughts, ideas and constructive criticism. If you have any questions please ask me.

Notes:
The map has been sized down from its actual size; 33,000px by 30,000px, which was in turn downsized from the first stage which was 99,000px by 90,000px. As I've mentioned, this map is massive, and if the finished product ever comes to pass it wont be nearly this big.
The map is of course a DEM so black and white, but I have included a gradient and sea mask for aesthetic appeal.
The area in green is the part I'm working on at the moment with the other parts mostly done for now, I'm having trouble deciding how I want to refine and improve this area. The semi enclosed basin I feel has too low altitude and so i want to raise up, but this has been quite a challenge so far in ensuring the drainage basin and mountain ranges make sense and are visually appealing. If anyone has ideas for this region please let me know.

Thanks, Gilligan.Argonessen Base WIP.png

[Redrobes]

Hi Gilligan,

I was part of the Me-Dem project where we created the whole of middle earth as a DEM about 12 or so years ago. Theres still some remnants of it online such as this you tube video showing the DEM incorporated into the Outerra terrain visualizer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLHHS5Q_m0g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX7r7_bUOkY

You can see go on to the forums to talk about the DEM as part of Outerra and there is a download for some of the data to it. This isnt a very well used forum but its still alive:

http://worlds.outercraft.com/forum/

Outerra is a real time terrain visualization program which also has a section on the Me-Dem project where it used to be able to show it - like the you tube vid. But whether it still can now I am less sure.

https://forum.outerra.com/index.php?topic=1491.0

The DEM was also converted into Minecraft but I am unsure about which of the various Minecraft versions of ME out there was derived from the MeDem dataset. If you search on this forum there is a pretty extensive thread running about it too.

https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ead.php?t=1332

So I say all of that so that it might short cut you to a DEM of the whole world but if you want to create another copy of it then you would have my interest to see how you go about it and what strategies you would take to get you there. We (the user Monks on here really) used Global Mapper and converted the basic shape of the world into vector format. There was some processing by Wilbur and WorldMachine I think. Then when I got the data from that I programmed up a massive make file to add in dem textures and auto generate some extra detail based on many factors and we went up to 40,000 pixel square version of it. Then it was imported into Outerra which also has a wavelet based detail enhancer for going really close up dynamically and you could run around the terrain with all that detail in real time.

We were asking about for people to create the 3D models for the important buildings in the world but it never got very far on that. There was a project called the Minas Tirith Project which made a super detailed version of it but sadly that was cut short and the data not released properly. So it all stalled and has not really been properly picked up since but there are a few posts going through on the Outercraft forums so its not completely dead.

I have to admit that I am burnt out by the old MeDem project and cant really dedicate any more time to it. But it was fun whilst it lasted.

Yeah, so I am obviously super interested in your take on this and would be interested to see your progress as well as comments all about the MeDem version too.

[Gilligan]

Hey Redrobes, big fan of your work!

Its very interesting to hear about MeDem, as I wasn't around on the guild during its heyday, and I must admit your method for the creation of the DEM is far different to mine I must admit (Yours is probably far better and less time consuming too haha)

Essentially my method was inspired by the excellent Pixies's idea in turning numerous real world DEM files into a much bigger custom one found in this thread here: https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=31618
This essentially is my method, I acquire real world DEM images, place them onto an area that I have a general understanding of elevation, and begin blending the images together until they have a logical and visual connection.
Where my method differs is that I found Pixie's method worked only on a smaller scale, and so I took it to an extreme by working with massive files and so DEMs can be taken and edited to allow a greater level of control of terrain.

[Redrobes]

Well ours took several years ! I should also say that we also downloaded a lot of real world DEMs from sites like NASA and compiled lots of them. Then we made up patches of them and then made the patches seamless using the same technique that I outline in my seamless textures on here:

https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ead.php?t=1373

Then we made some terrain maps to describe the type of terrain as a classification. This was taken from some reference guide which I forget the name but its in the long thread about the making of the world. So once you know which terrain type classification it was from then we applied a bit of that to the rough vector map that was drawn out with Global Mapper. By making them seamless you can just texture it with an infinite expanse and although it repeats when added to the vector base you wont notice it. We also had coloured textures of the same terrrain types for the visual colour map for applying to the 3D model - although Outerra uses its own texture maps.

Our two methods diverge a bit I think where we did ours in tiles. We had 2x2 5K base maps and then it was chopped up into 40x40 x 1024 sized tiles. We actually used 1536 sized tiles which overlapped by the 512 pixels and blended over the 256 border on each side. So by doing that it was still consistent over the 40K but we only had to deal with 1536 size bitmaps at each stage. But, you have to run everything 1600 times for all of the tiles - hence the huge makefile so that it kept the process on track.

If you think you can handle all of the data in one tile then that would be more efficient but it was a strain on computers at the time. We have more memory now tho. We really wanted to do the processing on the graphics card but at the time it was barely at the point where that was viable. Outerra was processing its terrain on the graphics card tho and it was hugely faster than what we could do. Graphics cards have multi gig amounts of graphics ram now. Also, both OpenCL and CUDA (and their drivers) have stabilized from where they were a decade ago.

[Peter Toth]

Hi Gilligan,

You're relatively a newcomer here on the Guild, but your the map you're presenting is exquisite beyond even a poet's wildest and most fanciful verbal expressions! I've been struggling for years to master the fine art of cartography to produce similar maps in the "realistic atlas style" that you have evidently mastered. In fact, my dream is to create as many realistic planets as I can in this style, all with precisely defined astronomical and geological parameters (that would probably bore the average Guild member), for the spiritual purpose that possibly when I die, I'll be "given the opportunity to visit these worlds." My only limitation, besides an inadequate brain, is my lack of access to power hardware and software. I'm doing my mapping on a laptop with just 16 GB of RAM, and although I was trained in Photoshop in 2005, I've since lost my CS Edition (which itself I know was released about 2000). Moreover, because I'm living on a wage well below the poverty line, I've had to settle using only GIMP and Wilbur. So my question to you is: to work with a 30,000 x 30,000 pixel resolution, what did you do, travel to the year 2060 and bring back their top-of-the-line PC (LOL)? Could you please let us know what you're working with?

Again, outstanding work. I'd instatntly hire you to create my worlds if not for my abysmal financial situation. Keep up the good work and post often, for I'd love to see more of your work!

Peter

[Gilligan]

Hi Peter!

First, thanks very much for the praise it means quite a lot as I've been learning the tricks of the trade and been doing this so long, so its great to hear it's paying off.
I also indulge in my creative outlet of planetary creation as a form of escapism, although I tend to err on the side of realism for aesthetics I must admit.

Believe it or not, my PC is quite **** lol. The processor is an Intel I5 3340, which whilst not being bad is not particularly great either. I do have 8gb of RAM and it manages just fine with a 30 by 30. I somehow manage despite how it really shouldn't on paper. I am planning on upgrading soon however, but still, I think 30 by 30 is manageable but just slows all processes quite dramatically.

[Gilligan]

Argonessen Base WIP2.png

Here is my process so far, I am refining the middle area a bit more and whilst it is still very much a WIP, I am enjoying my progress so far. I have a question for anyone interested, do you think the central valley area enclosed in purple looks good? Do you like the altitude, meaning should I either raise it and have it look more reddish or lower it and have it more green? This is one of the most difficult areas to get right and any feedback would be lovely thanks.

Gill

[Bindusara]

i think the river in the north of the purple section is not big enough. The drainage basin is huge, enclosed by two moutains chains. Except if you think that this part of the map has no rain.

[Dimension Door]

What a scary amount of work this must be.. Impressive!

[Gilligan]

Argonessen Base WIP2.png

Another update, progress is progress. Slow but steady. The area in blue is what needs to be worked on until I can move onto more stages as I continue to touch up the heightmap. Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated.