Canyon Tombs

[Shigure]

Hey folks!

This is my first battle-map and I think I was a bit too ambitious with the caves and all the different elevations (it's supposed to be 3 levels). I tried my best to give a sense of depth, but I'm not sure if I succeeded. And I definitely botched some of the shadows as well.

What I'd like to ask you is:
Are the different "levels" easy to recognize?
What could I have done better/differently?

I know that I should make the "lower steps" smaller, and the tombs on the left bigger since they are higher, but I had to redo a lot and decided to leave it as is. Lesson learned for the next one, though.

I'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback.

[Bogie]

Nice work. The levels don't jump right out as it is a complex layout, but with a little studying I could figure them out.

[Shigure]

Thank you! I've updated the map from the feedback I got around the internet. For anyone who wants to use it, you can find both gridded and gridless Hi-Res version here.

[XCali]

Hey I really like the idea. And a good start, but I've stare at this thing for an hour now and I do think even with the update it stills seems very odd. For one, I can't figure out which is lower the actual canyon going under the bridge or the parts you made dark. The darkest area is suppose to be the one with the least amount of light. But there should be a gradual gradient going from an area of light to the darker area IF there is a ramp going down there.

The question I think needs asking is, what parts are the highest? I guess its the bridge? But then the lowest should probably be the canyon below it, but you made the areas that lead almost directly from the highest point to the areas with the darkest shadow so close to each other. Which if it was only a cliff or just the one canyon it would make complete sense. But in this case, the places that should be second highest isn't. The stairs to the lower areas throw me off too. The stairs lineart would suggest the Valley as the lowest, but then you make the pits very dark suggesting then the pits are the lowest... So, I can't say I fully understand the height and depths here.

I would advise you look at the map when its smaller and a bit further away from you and see if you can figure it out.
You will probably have to make a CONCEPT layer above the map for yourself ONLY to make a Basic Colour Height map. to your TOP area, your MIDDLE area and the your LOW area and see if it makes sense. For this map to go from confusing to a good battle map, you have to make clear definitions of those three areas and it has to make sense. That is important.

I tried making up or down from this map, I really did. But if you can decide what is highest, middle and lowest and THEN add shadows and highlights and see if you can make the transition between your zones be more realistic, then this would be fine battlemap.
(Maybe try one version where the top stairs' lineart is removed and the shadowy pit in the right corner is not a pit but up high. That might make the heights and depths seem less confusing.)


ANYWAY. Still, I really enjoy the lineart and how you did your stairs. There is quite a bit to enjoy here.
This whole post is not by any means me being negative. I want the map to be the best it can be.

[Shigure]

Hey XCali! You don't sound negative at all, so don't worry! I wish everyone could give me such good feedback as you did! Thank you! Now, where to start?

First, I think I need to clarify that the 3 darkest areas with the tombs are actually "see-through" caves. Some people were confused at first, like you, which is why I updated the name to "canyon cave tombs", along with the darker shadows. These 3 areas being caves also explains the sudden deeper shadows I used. I know, I went too complex for my first map!

So, in order of lowest to highest point: the path in the middle -> the area with the 2 caves on the right -> the sundial on the upper right, the bridge and the cave to the left.

I didn't use a heightmap, (and quite frankly I don't know what that is) but I had 2 layers for shadows. The first was for the general shadows of the map, and for the second I went over each level with a soft brush. The lower the levels, the higher the opacity of the brush I used. And I believe it's easy to see when you compare the bridge with the lower level.

I'm working on another map now, with elevations again, but no caves this time! I learned my lesson!

[XCali]

Hehe, cool beans!

Don't worry about the caves. it's just WHERE you put the caves that matter. Like the cave to the left on your map is so close to the highest point of the map that created confusion, like I explained.

With a height map, there are different ways to go about one. But the type I was talking about is as simple as you use 3 base colours to just paint where your highest points on your map will be and lowest. For example. The is kind of like the blueprint of a map. You paint white to say, okay here is my high areas and grey for mid and black for the lowest, once that is figured out you can go about adding your lineart and everything. Its one way of many to go about things.

Good luck with your next map

[GenkiBob]

Hey I really like the idea. And a good start, but I've stare at this thing for an hour now and I do think even with the update it stills seems very odd. For one, I can't figure out which is lower the actual canyon going under the bridge or the parts you made dark. The darkest area is suppose to be the one with the least amount of light. But there should be a gradual gradient going from an area of light to the darker area IF there is a ramp going down there.

I agree. I stared at it for a while, came back to it later, and it finally settled in to what is what. When you are making something, you have a 3D image in your mind as to what it should be, and laying it out it all makes sense. But to an outside observer who cannot read your mind, there may not be enough obvious clues to construct the image for them.
I would make the central canyon at the bottom in deeper shadow. The mid-level tomb areas on the right in mid level shadow. Then the arch bridge and the upper tomb area remain the same in brighter daylight. Maybe also make a "player map" version showing an aerial view with the tombs covered by rock with hints of dark shadows where the windows are.
But the overall effect is really cool. It brought back memories of the Valley of the Kings that I visited years ago where some of the tombs are set in the cliffside of a narrow valley.