Ysi Earth world map II

[hunab.cu]

First WIP from those three here looks great. This project looked great to me from the beginning, but now I dare to say that it will be one of most awesome maps I've ever seen.

I rarely turn the serious mode on, but now I say with absolutely no joke: Naeddyr, you're really talented and your Ysi earth project is amazing either in concept and execution!

[Naeddyr]

Added place names for bigger cities and seas and oceans (and one lake).

Added graticule numbering. If you can figure out the numbering system you get a cookie. No. TEN THOUSAND cookies!

Had to make a cleaner and more legible version of Phelthie for the small print.

[altasilvapuer]

Added graticule numbering. If you can figure out the numbering system you get a cookie. No. TEN THOUSAND cookies!

Well, judging by earlier posts, I'm going to make a semi-haphazard guess that the latitude lines drawn are in increments of 15°, for lines at 0, 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, and their reciprocal negatives. What I can't figure out, yet is whether the number starts with the South pole as 0°, or the equator. I did notice that the S shape (that in the higher latitudes looks almost like a variant of some $ symbols, but I think that's just an optical illusion from size) is appended to the end of every degree ending in 5, leading me to believe it is some method of denoting either 5, or halfway to the next increment.

Also, both 75°N and S seem to have identical numberings, save for the addition of a 'C'-like shape in the middle of the name for 75°N. (Closest transliteration I have: 75°N = GCS, 75°S = GS). The same occurs at 15°N and S, save for the addition of a near-arch shape (closest transliteration, using M as the closest representative of the 'arch': N: 6MS, S: 6S). I haven't deciphered whether either is relevant, yet, though.

I haven't begun to take into account meridians, yet, though, and I should be off to class, soon, so further investigation will sadly have to wait.

Out of curiosity, where are the current centers of 'modern' society in this map?

-asp

[Naeddyr]

I haven't begun to take into account meridians, yet, though, and I should be off to class, soon, so further investigation will sadly have to wait.

Oh that's pretty obvious, 15 degrees, 360 and 180 degrees. I actually thought of using some other number for the number of degrees, but it turns out that 360 is a kick ass number. Seriously, it is awesome. So the problem is not that... I was more refering to the numerals and maths themselves. Here's a hint: the "5" looking shape is actually a numeral meaning 3.

Seriously, it's quite complicated. You don't even have that much information to go on! Possibly impossible to figure out.

Out of curiosity, where are the current centers of 'modern' society in this map?

This is a fantasy map, so it doesn't have a modern setting. Tech-level around 17th century, some more, some less, and a bunch of magic to compensate, etc. I'm trying to go for a bit more fantastical instead of mechanical fantasy, but it's hard. Have to keep on reminding myself that people in the past don't think like I do, etc.
The concept of this whole map is a cheat, actually. The northern and southern continent don't know about each other - they are very separate, with some stuff leaking through at the edges "there is a land in the west/east" etc. so a world map like this wouldn't be possible. This map does have a backstory, though, based on stuff from my novel (which I have to rewrite), The King of Nowhere, and the rest... Is spoilers.

I'm going to put some illuminations relating to the story here. The Sealer figure in the upper left corner is supposed to be the other main character of KoNW, and I'm going to add a man looking down on Earth in the wedge between the Red Moon and the South Pole...

[Girltron]

I've been thinking you may want to experiment with other ways of drawing the human figures. The map's style of markmaking (including the animals portrayed) is very calligraphic and the figure, as it's currently drawn, is much blockier and with the beginnings of modeling shadows and such.

Instead, I suggest looking at the way human figures are portrayed in more linear, pattern-like ways. Check out the figures in the Lindisfarne Gospels perhaps, as well as Chinese portrait paintings of various eras. The black and white ink paintings will be helpful, though the brushier, looser ones wouldn't fit well. Egyptian and Minoan wall-paintings of human figures, and woodblock prints of various eras and cultures may be good resources too, depending on the cultures you're representing. You may be able to combine line qualities and get something that matches the map a little more.

In general, I like to think of figure painting this way: cultures that prefer a flat, pattern-making style are not illustrating "human" characteristics but divine ones. Cultures that favor illusion of depth and modeling tend to be more focused on human, rather than divine or philosophical, concepts. That's a VERY generalized way of saying it.

[Karro]

In general, I like to think of figure painting this way: cultures that prefer a flat, pattern-making style are not illustrating "human" characteristics but divine ones. Cultures that favor illusion of depth and modeling tend to be more focused on human, rather than divine or philosophical, concepts. That's a VERY generalized way of saying it.

That's an interesting assertion, there. I'd be interested in hearing the logic or supporting evidence behind that conclusion, out of curiosity.

[Girltron]

Oh, it's quite a bit OT. Since you asked, though: the logic is that portraiture is specific. Look at Roman republican portrait sculptures. Those are about specific, down to earth people. Similarly, portrayal of physical space is only of interest when portraying humanistic ideas-as in, obviously, the early Renaissance in Italy where the philosophy of art was moving in a very humanistic direction and away from broad spiritual representations. Look at the transition between pagan and early Christian art in Rome as an example of a transition in the opposite direction; art that deliberately turns away from portraying real space in favor of less specific forms that represent general (and often religious) ideals instead of specific ones. Oen could argue that the religious art of Pagan Rome was always more political and human-oriented than oriented toward the spiritual. It's not worked up all thesis-like, it's just a decent framework for designing an art style for a culture. And it holds up to comparison with human cultures and art.

Heck, here's another example: compare Minoan and Egyptian paintings of similar time periods. The Egyptians were much more concerned with the afterlife/non material than the Minoans, whose art, being more naturalistic, was about basic day to day activities instead.

[altasilvapuer]

Oh that's pretty obvious, 15 degrees, 360 and 180 degrees. I actually thought of using some other number for the number of degrees, but it turns out that 360 is a kick ass number. Seriously, it is awesome. So the problem is not that... I was more refering to the numerals and maths themselves. Here's a hint: the "5" looking shape is actually a numeral meaning 3.

Seriously, it's quite complicated. You don't even have that much information to go on! Possibly impossible to figure out.



This is a fantasy map, so it doesn't have a modern setting. Tech-level around 17th century, some more, some less, and a bunch of magic to compensate, etc. I'm trying to go for a bit more fantastical instead of mechanical fantasy, but it's hard. Have to keep on reminding myself that people in the past don't think like I do, etc.

After I posted, I did notice some of the meridians had the same markings as some of the parallels, so I knew some were the same, and had a hunch they included 15, 30, and such. Knowing you're such a stickler for correct sizing and perspective was also a clue in that regard, given the approximately square shape of the central four graticules (I think that is the proper use of that word, yes? I've only just learned it as a result of this discussion, surprisingly).

As for the term 'modern' I mean essentially just up to the point of the technology of this map. If you say they're at roughly 17th Century level technology, then I'd be looking for analogues to the main population centers of 17th Century Earth. Basically, my theory was that (0, 0) in the graticules would likely have some relation to at least one major population center and/or the equator. In order to decipher the symbols, I first have to discern what they represent, which requires knowing where (0, 0) resides, which is what I'm currently trying to figure out.

Also on that note: if the two continents have no contact, do the graticule numbering systems vary between them? If so, which 'point of view' does this map represent?

And you say that the 5-shape represents 3? By that, I assume you refer to what I termed the "S"-shape, present, for example, at the end of the label for the arctic circle?

-asp

[Karro]

I imagine, based on other details in the map, that the numerals are written backwards (i.e. right to left). Would that be an accurate statement?

[Naeddyr]

Knowing you're such a stickler for correct sizing and perspective was also a clue in that regard

No I'm not!

As for the term 'modern' I mean essentially just up to the point of the technology of this map. If you say they're at roughly 17th Century level technology, then I'd be looking for analogues to the main population centers of 17th Century Earth. Basically, my theory was that (0, 0) in the graticules would likely have some relation to at least one major population center and/or the equator. In order to decipher the symbols, I first have to discern what they represent, which requires knowing where (0, 0) resides, which is what I'm currently trying to figure out.

Note that 0,0 will still lie on the equator, usually. The prime meridian is by fiat, but the equator is a natural constant.

Also on that note: if the two continents have no contact, do the graticule numbering systems vary between them? If so, which 'point of view' does this map represent?

Presumably. I forgot the whole prime meridian thing, so when I started numbering these, I picked one 15-meridian that went through a big city at random from those present. This is a Southern Continent (which is "up" on this map) system. It can be difficult to see, but zero is represented by lack of number.

By that, I assume you refer to what I termed the "S"-shape, present, for example, at the end of the label for the arctic circle?

Yes, that sign represents 3, and only 3.

I imagine, based on other details in the map, that the numerals are written backwards (i.e. right to left). Would that be an accurate statement?

The dominant writing for this script is up to down (with columns going by the handedness of the author; Ysi humans have less right-handedness domination, sinisters are around a third of the population. Or at least the among the races of the Southern Continent. There's people who have tails on Ysi Earth (result of sexual selection, very short tails), an addition I am going to make the map). If written horizontally (which it might be), it's left to right. Thing is, which way are numbers written? Even if the script is left to right, orders of magnitude don't necessarily descend or ascend that way... :3

You're going to kill me after this is over and I tell you how it works. It's a very different system from our familiar arabic numerals.

You really need more information.

This number is nine hundred and eighty nine.