What is Ki?

[RPMiller]

I'm going to purposely not capitalize ki and chi, but I understand that some feel that it should be capitalized. Let's chalk this up to me being tired and lazy.

Nope, I am getting the information from my sister. She's in massage therapy, primarily eastern massage. Eastern massage therapy uses Chi very heavily. She's also been interested in eastern culture since a very early age so she has been an excellent source of fascinating information on the region.

I see. That explains what you believe. While your sister is correct, she also doesn't understand the completeness of chi. Chi is, for the most part, essentially the same as ki, as others have stated. You have to remember that the Japanese people are "ex-Chinese." They came to Japan and to some extent bred with the original inhabitants, but mostly they subjugated them. Some of the descendants of those original inhabitants still live in the northern most areas of the island of Hokkaido, but all that is for a different discussion. The point is that when the Chinese migrated there, they brought many of their ideas and one of those was chi. I won't bore you with all the additional info as I could go on for a long time. I should mention that I work for a Japanese company so a lot of my knowledge comes first hand from my Japanese co-workers.

Anyway... More to come farther down.

I get my Ki knowledge from Aikido obviously (Shinshintouitsu Aikido, also known as Ki Aikido for it's primary focus on the Ki aspect of Aikido). From both what my teacher and others have said as well as what I have personally noticed I have come to view Ki as a non-mystical, non-spiritual thing. It can be scientifically measured and tested and it's results even without equipment are pretty obvious (and quite amazing).

Ah yes... the measuring and testing statement... This is a perfect segue into what chi is. I have read about those tests, and should point out here that the "scientists" doing the tests call the energy they are measuring both chi and ki. Chi is the Chinese word, and ki is the Japanese. Anyway, if you read that study very carefully, there are some logic fallacies and some non scientific steps that they take to "prove" that the energy is real. It is unfortunate as far as I'm concerned as you'll read in a moment.

When I first started practicing Tai Chi Chuan, I didn't believe in the full extent of chi, but I did experience it as a youth in a very small dose. Chinese healer... again long story. Anyway, when I started learning, my teacher was an American who had learned from a master in China, (cool story, but also long) he lived there for 15 years with the master and studyed everyday from sun up to sun down. So, I definitely gave him a good amount of credit, but remained somewhat skeptical.

Before you start the martial aspects you have to learn the various exercises as these help build up the chi within the practitioner. Again, my attitude, was "okay, whatever, I'll play along." There are various exercises that you do prior to doing the "forms." These exercises are comprised of various stretches and strikes to pressure points that are intended to free up the flow of chi. I'll skip the pages of description of the specifics. Let's just say that you need to be fit to do about half of them. After a couple weeks of doing these exercises everyday, I was suddenly shocked when, in the middle of "Horse Turns and Looks to the Moon" (loosely translated), my hands began to heat up and tingle. (That is the only way to describe it really.) Note that I had been doing these same exercises with no effects for a couple weeks already. I stopped and stood up and had to shake my hands to stop them from tingling. My teacher looked at me curiously and smiled and then said without me asking, "That is chi."

Jump forward several months. All 8 of us are lined up in the teacher's backyard (did I mention this is a private class?) and he tells us that it is time for a couple of us to experience the more "forceful" aspect of chi. I sort of had an idea what that could mean but I was ready for what happened. He walked up to me, touched his fingertips to my chest and then rocked back onto his heals. His hand flew forward palm facing me, and stopped the moment it touched it touched my shirt... As I pushed myself up to my elbows from the prone position I had assumed about 6' from where I had been standing, a sudden and painful throbbing started at my back and moved forward to my chest. The teacher came over and helped me to my feet and after a few passes over what I assumed were various pressure points and chi points, the pain went away. Note, that he did not "hit" me, but rather gently tapped my chest with his palm. I had no bruise from the impact the following day and no pain. I then believed in the power of chi in an offensive use...

If you have read this far, I commend you. I'm going to stop here and sum things up, and post more later if there are questions or directed comments. To sum up my experiences, Nomadic's description of ki above very much fits with my understanding of chi as well. The primary difference I believe in the definitions that are applied is that ki tends to be somewhat restricted to the martial aspects while chi extends into the healing arts as well. I firmly believe that the actual energy itself is the same and what they were seeing in that aforementioned study. I really wish that they had done a better job with that study because I really want to know what this internal energy is and how it works. To this day I can generate it in my hands within seconds, and have had my close friends feel the energy themselves to show that I'm not fooling around.

Anyhow at MSA, in the interest of maintaining the peace I am not going to read your earlier posts nor fault you for anything. I am sorry if you took what I said the wrong way but I wasn't using ignorant in a derogatory manner nor calling you a moron. There seems to be alot of misconception about what it really means.

Yes, your definition is correct, and it is unfortunate that so many take the word in such a negative light. This is why I personally refrain from using it and instead use the definition itself.

[Gamerprinter]

Wow, RP! You've definitely got me intrigued and can't wait to hear more. Not that there's room here, but I'd also love to hear the "long stories" that belong in another thread regarding your tale.

While I believe I have a good understanding of the basics of what Chi/Ki is, I haven't truly experienced it myself, thus its difficult to convey what it is to the uninitiated. I end up, sounding like a Ki religious missionary, but when cornered I can't give evidence to take it from what I believe to what it truly is.

Mostly when I say Ki is real, I usually get the stares of being some kind of weirdo. Of course much of the problem is many hear the idea of Chi/Ki through Anime and Manga, and those audiences of that material (of which I am not) see this as a flavor of oriental magic to drive the effects being done by the characters in the storyline. Too often, it is used to describe the fantasy idea of Ki - flying, stopping in midair, floating, creating fire and ice balls to throw at opponents and other such purely fantasy ideas that come out of Ki.

Thus to the uninitiated Ki can't be real, just a "belief system" of the orient and nothing more.

I look forward to your continued dissertation on the subject.

GP

PS: I'd love to give you some REP for this wonderful discussion - of course, I need to spread the love, before I can give you more, but for the first time in a while, I am in REP debt to you, as you often have been in the same position to REPping me!

[Steel General]

I'll rep him for ya GP! *BONK*

[RPMiller]

When I was about ten years old, I had the opportunity to visit a Chinese healer through a friend of the family who recommended that we go see him for some allergies that I was experiencing since moving to California. I barely recall the adults' conversation, but I believe it was concerning herbal remedies. Well, we set up the appointment and went to visit him. I only remember bits and pieces of the whole experience so bare with me if it is a little weak on details.

I sat on the edge of the bed, I don't remember it being a traditional hospital setting, and when the doctor walked in I remember him raising his hands toward me and moving them. He kept them raised as he moved toward me and then lowered them when he was a short distance away. He then talked to my mom for a bit. After that he stood to the side of me and moved one hand around in front of my chest and I assume the other was behind me. I felt my body get warmer, but don't remember any tingling or anything. After that we left, and I remember having to drink some really nasty tasting stuff for about a week. I seem to remember stopping before it was all gone because it was so awful, but I don't remember having any more allergic reactions since then. I have no idea if it was chi that that helped or the herbal remedy, but I do know from my own experience that he had been using chi when he was examining me. However, I will say that I have no idea how real that aspect is or what is involved since my experience is all on the martial side. But I can say that chi, when focused properly, does have some interesting properties...

Next up... "Breaking the flower."

[ravells]

Did he call you 'grass hopper?'

Don't mean to be flip as I actually think that these curatives do work on occasion.

[RPMiller]

Who knows? I was ten and I don't remember a thing he said. I don't even think he talked to me.

[Greason Wolfe]

Boy, oh boy, oh boy! This has been some interesting (and fun) reading. I'm really not sure if my two and a half cents will contribute much to the overall conversation, and I will readily admit I am not an expert on either side of the coin when it comes to ki and its comparison to psionics. But back in the day, when I played in, and/or ran games, this subject did come up on occasion and in much the same fashion as it has here. So we (the group I played with) sat down and tried to define a few things in relation to it all. What we came up with suited our needs as far as gaming mechanics went, but certainly isn't entirely accurate in terms of what these concepts mean in the real world.

For the most part, we took psionics (as they are typically defined in most table top RPGs) and broke them down into two groups, based on whether they manifested themselves on a physical level or a sensory level.

Those abilities that manifested themselves on a physical level (i.e. Body Weaponry, Accelerated Healing, Improved Strength) became part of the Ki group. The Ki group was based off of the concept of everything, both animate and inanimate, being possessed of some sort of internal energy. We never could quite define what the nature of this energy was, but we were certain that it wasn't spiritual or elemental in any way, nor was it of an arcane or divine nature. I guess you could say it was like our version of Dark Matter. In any event, those skilled in the art of manipulating Ki, could affect changes in the physical world in the sense that they could, on a short term basis, improve their physical abilities, alter their bodies (minimally) or resist certain natural effects (i.e. resist cold, go without sleep, go without food). They could even manipulate the Ki of another to accelerate the natural healing process or, if they were "evil" cause a disruption in another's Ki resulting in pain and/or injury. As a side note, these abilities were often tied to a character's Ego or Willpower (Wisdom in D&D).

On the other side of that coin were those abilities that were strictly sensory in nature and couldn't effect the physical world. These we defined as Psionics in the traditional sense of the term. Into this group went such things as Telepathy, Empathy and most of the Cognitive abilities. The idea here was that these abilities came about as a result of a universal consciousness, or group mind, if you will. In essence, what we did was define a plane well beyond the known planes of existence where there existed a culmination of all thought, both conscious and unconscious. By accessing this plane, the Psi could read the thoughts of others, could see through their eyes, hear through their ears and so on. A particularly skilled Psi could even delve into the past and see events that happened long ago. The only thing we had to be careful of was working with Precognitive abilities. When it came to this, we tried to have things set up so that the Psi trying to read the future was given a few choices of what might happen and then work out the most likely result based on "in the moment" evidence. While most of these abilities were Intelligence based, Ego, Willpower (Wisdom in D&D) also played a significant roll, particularly when trying to keep thoughts hidden.

All of this worked really well for us as a group, and it wasn't long after that, that we started re-defining where the power behind Arcane and Divine magic came from. But that is for another discussion.

I sincerely hope this discussion continues as I do have a particularly vested interest in where it goes. One of my writing projects is in the sci-fi genre, and I've been reading up a bit on these very things as I try to define what the characters are and are not capable of in a futuristic setting where that concept of a universal consciousness has been "re-discovered." I've managed to define the apparent FTL travel concept, but I'm still looking for a way to justify instantaneous communications and had thought that Telepathy might play a significant role in that justification.

GW

[Gamerprinter]

OK, after some thought and reconsideration, I decided to embrace psionics to be integrated with Ki. I've decided to add niche psionic enhancements to several classes in Kaidan.

Xen Monk (prestige class for Monks): psionic buffs to attributes, AC, movement, saves, and two or three energy attacks, sonic or force only.

Xen Samurai (one of the 15 noble houses of the provinces): psionic buffs to combat, combat movement, strength attributes and intimidation skills.

Five Ninja Houses each feature a different niche of psionic enhancements:

1. Stealth House will receive psionic: invisibility, pass through wall, shadow form, buffs to silent movement (shuriken weapons and buff to sneak attack.)

2. Divination House will receive psionic: clairvoyance, clairaudience, distance viewing, distance attacks (hankyu short bow, buffs to cover under fire.)

3. Movement House will receive psionic: levitation, walk on walls, jump and short bursts of speed movment, climb (chain weapons, free dodge, mobility)

4. Information Gatherers House (Kunoichi female ninja) will receive psionic: mind reading talents, detection abilities, suggestion powers (blade fan weapon skills, seduction skills with charisma enhancements.)

5. Temporal House will receive psionic: limited time manipulation powers, dimension door, sanctuary type power, dimensional slide (ninja-to sword weapon skills.)

I am not replacing Ki with psionics, rather I am enhancing Ki with psionics, but calling it all Ki (using psionics mechanically as it exists in game, however.)

GP

[msa]

I suppose it goes without saying, but I thoroughly approve of your decision. There may be a large philosophical difference between the two, but I think as they manifest in a fantasy RPG they are very similar.

[Greason Wolfe]

OK, after some thought and reconsideration, I decided to embrace psionics to be integrated with Ki. I've decided to add niche psionic enhancements to several classes in Kaidan.

<snip>

I am not replacing Ki with psionics, rather I am enhancing Ki with psionics, but calling it all Ki (using psionics mechanically as it exists in game, however.)

GP

I think that sounds perfectly reasonable. In the long run, whether or not to included psionic abilities in a campaign is a decision the GM has to make and, in making that decision, it always comes down to a matter of game balance. Based on what you've listed for the various houses, I'm thinking you've done a good job of adding an element of "flavor" to things, and I hope you'll let us know how it works out once play gets started.

GW