New to Digital Cartography? Software General Information

[dormouse]

This is what makes me feel a little daunted by the comparison with all the mapping ability. If you try to force the app to make the maps like the others then it probably wont come off as good. However if you tried to make the kind of maps that VDale likes with the others then I think they would come off worse. The comparisons could be open to a lot of prejudice.

Comparisons and opinion can be open to prejudice, but I'd certainly expect any comparison I make to be pretty fair. What I would say is that I was pointed to ViewingDale as a mapmaker (though I'm certainly not convinced it is one really), and so also MapTool. I'll only be looking at them in terms of making maps.

What I'll do is to start with designing a full range of maps (of the types that I have a use for) and only then to start to reproduce them in the mapmaker. If ViewingDale doesn't like the maps that I have a use for, then I assume it won't come off well; equally if it does like some of the type of maps that I use, then it should do well: I can only wait and see - and it might well be 8 or 9 months before I get around to ViewingDale. And certainly, the end point is expected to be a map that can be printed or used in a range of VTTs rather than ViewingDale specifically. At the end I would certainly hope to have a knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of each program - so far as their mapping capability is concerned anyway.

[dormouse]

Interesting discussion point. It definitely has the most capability to cram the most stuff onto a map space and navigate around. But if we're talking about map making, where the end result is a jpg, is it a great map maker ?

I don't know.

iirc , it doesn't have drawing tools, so all of your page content has to be premade images or text. And there isn't a visual way to browse for images to put onto the map, which would make map making a tad tedious (unless you have all your image names memorized).

Although this could just be me not knowing the UI well enough.

To me the UI was not intuitive, but I haven't spent much time looking at it. But then, a lot of the other UIs are described as not inutitive too.

If it doesn't compare well, then that is what I'll find, and I'll describe the process as well as I can, so people know what's involved.

[trevor]

As you mention that, I'm reminded of a for-fun "contest" we had a number of years back: Make a the cliche forest road scenario in one minute

Here's one that Dorpond put together:

http://rptools.net/dorpond/demos/QuickMap/QuickMap.html (1 minute)
http://rptools.net/dorpond/demos/Qui...QuickMap4.html (2 minutes)

And one he did with a slight modification on theme (2 minutes):

http://rptools.net/dorpond/demos/Qui...QuickMap3.html

[trevor]

Coincidentally, a user just posted a map he created using dungeon tiles that will be part of the official MapTool 1.3 build:

http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9079

complete with downloadable campaign file, might be a good starting place

[RPMiller]

I believe I was involved with that one minute challenge. I think it was back when I first started getting serious about using MapTool in fact. Here is my attempt from way back when:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrFaHKAmXdY

Oh, and now with the new random drawing macro, I'm betting we could do these in like 30 seconds and make them look awesome.

[dormouse]

now with the new random drawing macro, I'm betting we could do these in like 30 seconds and make them look awesome.

my heart sinks. I do have MacroExpress for my own stuff, but I can't say that I like getting into macros for normal work in a program. Useful for personalisation, and certainly spreads 'programming' effort, but not something I like to have to do in the normal way of things.

[RPMiller]

my heart sinks. I do have MacroExpress for my own stuff, but I can't say that I like getting into macros for normal work in a program. Useful for personalisation, and certainly spreads 'programming' effort, but not something I like to have to do in the normal way of things.

Oh... no the macro is already written and working. It is just a matter of adding a single token that contains the macro to your map and then executing it. So simple even I can run it. I would expect that the functionality will eventually be added directly into MT at some point in the next version. Right Trevor?

[Redrobes]

Dormouse: Ok I apologize and take it back then. I read...

...ViewingDale as a mapmaker (though I'm certainly not convinced it is one really),

...to be that you had decided with certainty that it was not a mapmaker already. If your not so certain and will look at it and decide then that is a much healthier point of view.

I know its not the all encompassing app and that it has its cons as well as pros but I think it fills in an area that is lacking in other apps. MapTools has better fog of war and other features esp in the VTT playability area. BattlegroundsRPG has a really thorough dice roller now and obviously PS and Gimp have great versatility etc. Anyway - will be interesting to see your conclusions then.

[dormouse]

Dormouse: Ok I apologize and take it back then.

If your not so certain and will look at it and decide then that is a much healthier point of view.

I know its not the all encompassing app and that it has its cons as well as pros

Thanks.

I genuinely have no views about ViewingDale as a mapmaker, and when I look at it I'll try and work out what its strengths and weaknesses are. Because it does a lot of other things, I'd be suprised if it were better in all ways at making maps than CC3 (with addons) for example since CC3 (so far as I know) only makes maps and is pretty expensive as a total suite. From my brief view so far, ViewingDale seems quite a unique product..

Anyway - will be interesting to see your conclusions then.

I'm sure I will have conclusions, and I will say (at least some of) what I think.
But, personally, I don't usually find other people's conclusions very helpful in a review.
What I do like, and what I will do, is say what I did and what the outcomes were, and I'll make observations about the process of making the maps and using the program.
If any deficiencies in my methods or use of the prog are pointed out, I'll go back and do it again.
I might at some point produce a number of lists giving my opinion on the progs I have tested for various users and/or type of use - eg Progs in order of ease of use for casual users; Progs in order of versatility of mapping types etc etc; will depend on what sorts of lists (in my opinion) have a genuine hierarchy in the progs and might be helpful to others.

But I'm afraid the whole thing will be a slow, tortoise like (or should that be tortuous like?) process but hopefully fairly thorough (I'll be aiming at very) and transparent.

[dormouse]

It is just a matter of adding a single token that contains the macro to your map and then executing it.

Oh yes ... adding a button and clicking on it is fine (I had noticed, but not read, the large number of macro topics in the help area so, when this was mentioned, became a little concerned that map making might need a lot of macro work; I'd originally assumed they were there to automate game systems etc).