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The thread is getting clogged with a lot of posts that are not germane to its intent. I recommend a CL move the above discussion to a separate thread in the general forum so as to maintain a good signal-to-noise ratio in this one.
Microsoft has not killed anything. Nor has it made anything die. Simply because they do not support it any longer doesn't mean it is dead or killed. Nor are any of the Internet Explorers killed or dead. Not used much anymore - yeah. But there are still software programs that require IE6.
But to answer your question - yes I do. As a software programmer I test all the way back to IE 3 and NN v2. I do this because hackers use the older versions of software to break in to websites. The older versions, unlike the current versions, allow you to see things that the newer versions do not allow you to see. Also, well written software (Javascript and HTML in this case) should be able to gracefully fail and not just crash. Further, some hackers start off with a current browser and then switch to an earlier one to try to crash a website. So you have to have and use those older browsers to see if the site will crash. So they are still useful even today.
It is true though that Microsoft has urged everyone to use a different browser than Internet Explorer. They named both Chrome and Firefox as alternatives to using Internet Explorer. Yet Microsoft still is developing updates and new versions of Internet Explorer.
Last, if I may, you should know that every version of Windows since Windows NT is just that - Windows NT. Windows XP was just Windows NT v5.x. Vista, 7.1, 8, 8.1, and so on are just later versions of Windows NT. So when you say Microsoft killed it off - you are also saying Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, etc.... were killed off also because the basic heart of Windows NT (ie: the underlying OS) was last twiked under 8.1 but the last major revision to the underlying OS was done with XP. So you are still running XP - just with some upgrades. Just like I'm still running NT - just with a lot of upgrades. You can verify this by Start->Control Panel->System->Advanced Tab->Environment Variables and look for the OS variable. It will say "Windows NT". Or you can open a command window (start->run->"cmd.exe"<CR>) and type "winmsd" into the command prompt. Even though it will say something like "Microsoft (c) XP" - if you open the "Software Environment" tree and click on the "Environment Variables" you will see the OS variable showing a value of "Windows NT". Because that really is what you are running. Plain old Windows NT just with a lot of upgrades. To think. This OS has been around almost as long as Linux but they are still finding bugs in it. My version of Windows NT is 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600.
The thread is getting clogged with a lot of posts that are not germane to its intent. I recommend a CL move the above discussion to a separate thread in the general forum so as to maintain a good signal-to-noise ratio in this one.
Bryan Ray, visual effects artist
http://www.bryanray.name
I agree. Actually - why not just remove those posts about Microsoft and XP altogether. I didn't come here to argue about that. So for my posts - please just get rid of them. Thanks! :-)
Back on topic: I was browsing around for a good beginner-level dungeon and wilderness map maker, but I see that CC3 is rather expensive and Dundjinni is giving a SERVICE UNAVAILABLE response.
sooo... Is there something that's maybe a little less robust than CC3 or can someone tell me what happened to Dundjinni? (I don't know if I want it, but I do want to look at it).
cheers.
there seems to be a frustrating lack of options here unfortunately. i'm trying to track down dungeonforge.
I've used CC3 before and while it's powerful it's interface is something out of the mid 90s that just kept adding more features. it's also way more geared towards outright cartography rather than building game maps/dungeons, despite the add-ons.
Try out Fractal Mapper 8 from NBOS. I've used FM8, Dundjinni, CC DOS, CC2, CC2 Pro and CC3. FM8 will do all that you want, and it's easy to learn, where CC3 has a very high learning curve.
Dundjinni has been mostly out of business for a few years now, and it appears that it went totally out of business a few weeks ago. The Dundjinni website has gone totally dead. Dundjinni is/was a good program for dungeons and battle maps but not particularly well suited for town or overland mapping. The program last was updated 7 years ago, in 2008.
You can evaluate FM8 completely without spending a cent. Just do the following:
1. Download the free trial version at http://www.nbos.com
2. Download the free manual-tutorial PDF at http://www.nbos.com/nox/index.php?action=1001&id=125
3. Download the free raster mapping tutorial at http://www.vintyri.com/vintyri/tu1.htm
The trial version of FM8 is identical to the full version with two exceptions: You can't save files, and you get a smaller symbol library. If, after you've tried FM8, you decide it's not for you, you haven't lost a cent.
Last edited by Mark Oliva; 01-25-2015 at 01:39 AM.
Mark Oliva
The Vintyri (TM) Project
Mark,
Thanks for the info. Someone might want to update the opening posts of this topic so that new folks are not inadvertently misled...
Someone mentioned Inkscape. It is FREE and it will allow you to import images. All you have to do is to go to Google, click on the IMAGES link and type in something like overland mapping. You will get tons of images that you can use. Also try the +FREE clipart rivers (or mountains, valleys, forests, etc....). You will get tons of images. Anyway, Inkscape allows you to use everything as an object. There is also DIA (or is it DAI?). This is a CAD program that also will allow you to import images. Inkscape is more like an art program but with the two you can create anything. What I do on my FRP BBS is I do everything in Visio and then for my users I do the same design in Inkscape and post that (not always but most of the time). This allows the players in my game to move their figures around on the map to show me where they want to stand in relation to the monsters.
I've also used Screen Monkey from NBOS. It is ok but it lacks a lot of features like what Roll20 has. Last, but not least - there is Obsidian Portal. All of these are browser based programs mainly for playing an RPG on. But you can also use them to build maps which is why I even mention them. But for most people starting out I'd recommend Inkscape just to get started. Once you've exceeded what Inkscape can do you can then look into CC3, Fractal Mapper, etc....
By the way - Dundjinni is back up and running! :-)
Sorry - go to Google, click on the Images link. Type in "river art" or "mountain art" or "forest art". At the top there should be a horizontal line of things to select. Select the "ClipArt" option and that will take you to the tons of images that are free. I'm posting this because I tried what I had posted and it was not right. So I went through the steps until I had it down pat. Have fun! :-)
Oh! Also - I don't think anyone has mentioned just using MacPaint or Paint (Windows). Both can also be used to draw maps and other images.
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