Warning about HP Laptops - incompatibility with Win 10 Creators Update

[acrosome]

Can I cut out a lot of that by staying offline when using Mint?

Well, like any virus you'd probably only get one by downloading some sort of file from the internet. So, don't do that. It's actually rather difficult for a hacker to get into your Linux system just because you have your browser open, or whatnot.

A lot of Linux users do keep some sort of AV around, so that they can check a file before they post it publicly or send it to a friend who uses Windows. You can have one that does not constantly run in the background, and just scan the files that you need to. Heck, there are several free ones.

The way I want to use Mint (just to start with in these next few weeks) is purely as an OS to run GIMP and Krita, which have become an integral part of my mapping process, but which are by degrees becoming more and more difficult for me to use in Windows 10 because of the relatively cumbersome nature of that OS and the way it sucks up all my available RAM with its own system processes.

Which GUI for Mint are you using? I presume Cinnamon, since that's the most Windows-like and is usually recommended to new users. If you really want to cut down on background utilities and memory usage consider Xfce. It's designed to be very minimalist. (In fact, it does lack some of the customization features in which you seem to be interested.) But I believe the 18.3 version of Mint with Xfce is still in beta. You could just use 18.2 if you wanted- it's still supported until 2021.

All things considered, though, you're fine with Cinnamon.

I saw some evidence of that in the lightning speed of everything I tried when I was booted into Mint yesterday. I just couldn't believe the speed and power available in GIMP!

Well, honestly, part of that is just the lightning speed of any new system. Linux will eventually slow down a bit, too. You do need to go in a clean out logfiles and whatnot every now and again. But in my experience it's never as bad as Windows.

Looking further ahead, it is conceivable that further updates to Win 10 may make my life even harder. At that point I will seriously consider going for a complete Linux system, but with Windows 7 or 8.1 running in a VM - even if that is a bit tricky. I'm hoping that I will learn enough over time to be competent to manage such a feat when the time has come for me to otherwise abandon Windows.

I'm a big Linux believer and as I mentioned I eventually went Mac at least in part because OS X is a flavor of Linux, and I still have not defenestrated completely. Which, frankly, angers me. My MacBook is dual-booted with Windows 7 solely so that I can run Wilbur. I'm not exaggerating- it's the only thing I have ever installed on that partition other than the Windows OS itself. If you have any interest in obscure third-party software (e.g. Wilbur) you will eventually find something that you can only run by running Windows somehow, whether that is dual-boot, a VM, or Wine, or whatever. The Mac fanatics will claim that you can always find a Mac alternative, but that's a lie. Never trust a zealot. I went to the Apple store to get help setting up my dual-boot, since I had zero experience with Mac at that time, and you would not BELIEVE how much those geektards resisted setting up Bootcamp for me. It took a half hour of debate and eventually me getting VERY angry to break through to them. "No, the software I want to run does not exist in any form for Mac." "Have you really looked?" "It's very obscure freeware, and one dude maintains it." "There has to be another option." "Do you really want to part ways with your liver that badly? Because that's where we're headed." It was the Windows nanny attitude personified. I lost a bit of respect for Apple that day.

By that point I had gotten so used to doing whatever I wanted in Linux that the attitude grated especially harshly.

[Redrobes]

You wont have to install windows apps in mint to make the machine work. And the backdoors are from software running in windows. Basically it was to do with the touchscreen driver. The device driver runs devices. They are built as DLLs which get run with administrator privilage so that any device driver can mess about with your system a lot because they need to. If HP wrote them then they get certified as being ok by Microsoft using whats known as WHQL a windows quality control and they send out a key so that the driver is signed by microsoft and then windows doesnt bitch about it when you try to install a driver that is signed by MS. What appears to have happened is that the drivers have a problem with them that allow remote execution - they are backdoored and it appears as tho this was not picked up in the certification.

So its no issue on mint since mint will run the linux kernel which has loads of driver built into it to run the touchscreen amongst other things. Because all linux is open source then you can look at the source code for any of the drivers so its a lot harder (neigh on impossible) to get backdoors fitted into common drivers and get them installed as default kernel drivers for linux. The kernel will also have a driver for the fan etc.

My opinion is to use Mint as your main OS and use windows to run the odd 2 apps that linux wont run - which is basically how I do it here.

[Mark Oliva]

I've read the last group of replies, but I think an important issue still may be unanswered:

1) If Mouse is right and the HP utility handles the cooling, what will handle it under LINUX?

2) If Mouse can't find steering for the cooling in her BIOS, what guarantees for her that her Laptop will have sufficient cooling under LINUX?

Lest I be misunderstood, I have no problem with her going to LINUX or anything else. Although other manufacturers may do the same and I just don't know about it, I never have heard of processor cooling being delegated to a Windows utility.

However, if I were in Mouse's boat and couldn't afford to go buy a new computer tonight or tomorrow if I blew the current one away, I definitely would want more assurances than she's been given so far ... provided that a Windows utility really steers her cooling.

[Straf]

Mouse, check out this article: https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/27/hp...metry-service/

And no I highly doubt that the software is controlling the fan - or if it is, bypassing it would allow the motherboard to control the fan like it's supposed to.

[Straf]

Those utilities of HP's are non-essential to the running of the system. They're the equivalent of the trash that motherboard manufacturers ship with their motherboards to control/manage overclocking and the fan speed. The fan will always be managed by the BIOS. Power management is managed by the operating system but there are utilities that can be installed that can do both in a more customised way. You're hardly likely to need these things unless you want to be in control of everything your computer does. Which in that case you should write your own BIOS and operating system code.

[Mouse]

Mark - I think that after reading the article that Straf just linked to I'm uninstalling the one that keeps eating nearly a GB of my RAM.

Thanks for finding that for me Straf

As to the question of cooling I can see what both of you are saying.

I think that Straf is probably right about the motherboard and BIOS being in control, or there would be a huge uproar continuously going on in the news about millions of laptops going up in smoke as a result of doing exactly what I'm just about to do. I also remember having a much older HP before this one that had none of that nonsense going on. I don't think it even had a documentation folder for HP.

Red - I'm going to do a really small partition to start with. I do have a lot of Windows dependent software, like Office, and many other apps like Genetica and Scrivener for which I'd have to buy new licenses because I'm not even going to try messing with the registry to move them across to Mint. I also discovered last night that although I wouldn't have to buy any new licenses for my Profantasy software, and while CC3+ is perfectly functional in WINE, there are little glitch things like font size that may make it awkward for me to share my CC3+ files with other CC3 user in the future. So I've decided that CC3+ should also remain in Windows.

GIMP and Krita, however, definitely run much better in Mint. Since I use them in combination with CC3 it would make sense to have all my maps and graphics stored in folders that Windows can also see, like having a shared cabinet in the flat that Straf described that both the flatmates can see and use - which means that there only really needs to be space for the apps themselves in the Mint partition.

I'm still a bit confused about the rest of the settings though.

The note in step 5 of the installation process described in the instructions that ChickPea found for me has me a bit confused about how big to make everything...



Other questions:

Will the installation accidentally overwrite any of my user files?
If I make a mistake or want to change the sizes of things later on, is that going to be possible?

[Mark Oliva]

Mouse, check out this article: https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/27/hp...metry-service/And no I highly doubt that the software is controlling the fan - or if it is, bypassing it would allow the motherboard to control the fan like it's supposed to.

I'm very happy that you posted this and the link ... not knowing myself what kinds of games HP plays and having an extremely difficult time believing that HP steers its fans with Windows Utilities!

Particularly interesting was the following line, which I suspected would be the case.

Some users reported that the installation slowed down their system significantly, and that removing the application from the system restored the performance.

Good. I'm not going to tell Mouse what she should do, because she has to live with the results, but if it was my computer, I would disable (and even remove, if possible) the damned thing immediately.

Thanks again for providing this information!

[Mouse]

LOL! Already uninstalled

[Mouse]

Well, removing that telemetry app has helped a bit, but things still aren't right with my Windows. Its still really slow and crashy with non MS apps. Things like Office are fine, but anything that wasn't bought from MS is unstable. The only other thing that seems ok is CC3+, but that doesn't really make any kind of demand on the system compared to the bitmap editors like GIMP and Krita.

ChickPea - I'm confused by the diagram in the notes to step 5 in the instructions you linked me to for installing Mint, and I'd rather people tut, roll their eyes and think me a coward for not doing the partition, than ruin the only machine I have to my name by making a critical mistake at that point of the installation. The rest of it seems easy. Its just that particular part of the instructions.

I'm going to have a long think about this, and probably seek help from the local repair man, who has presumably seen the result of lots of other people's mistakes when installing Linux on a Windows machine with limited resources, and may even be able to guide me through setting it up without a hitch. He may even have helped other HP laptop owners.

[Mark Oliva]

Well, removing that telemetry app has helped a bit, but things still aren't right with my Windows. Its still really slow and crashy with non MS apps. Things like Office are fine, but anything that wasn't bought from MS is unstable. The only other thing that seems ok is CC3+, but that doesn't really make any kind of demand on the system compared to the bitmap editors like GIMP and Krita.

After reading this, I became personally curious about just what's going on and spent some time going through the Microsoft database and Microsoft's forums. What stands out with several HP Pavilion models after the Windows 10 Fall Creator Edition Update is:

1) Memory management is bad. Machines with 4 GB RAM are having their memory swallowed.

2) The problem models manifest their problems first and foremost in running bit-map based graphic programs. They also occur with Microsoft Paint and the new 3D Paint.

I also went through the HP forums. It is apparent that these problems are widespread with owners who have the "wrong" Pavilion models. I can find no trace anywhere of HP having done anything to help anyone to date. That help may be there somewhere, but if it is, it's eluded my search attempts.

I'm coming to the conclusion that things probably aren't going to get any better than they are right now. I don't like saying that, of course, but it appears to be how things are. I haven't heard Krita mentioned one way or another, but applications that consistently lead to trouble reports are Photoshop and The GIMP. You mention that Microsoft programs seem to be running OK yet on your machine. However, the forums also contain a number of crash reports for PowerPoint and also for Word and Excel files that have a heavy JPG or PNG embedded graphic content.

It appears that unless Santa Claus comes down your chimney with a miracle in his bag, things might stay the way they are, I'm sorry to say.