Over the top 4e Battle Scene

[Gamerprinter]

Come on guys, no need for an edition war, we're just talking about map challenge. By the looks of it, it will probably not be one. Point is a "challenge" is supposed to challenge you to create a map that follows a theme or set of rules.

Me, I'm not interested in playing 4e now nor probably ever, but as a challenge to create a map - I'm always game to anything that might get me to think about how to best create such a map, any map.

So in my explorations on what is a 4e map, that's different from any other - this is something I whipped up today before going to dinner for Mother's Day. Several members at RPGNet have mentioned that this map is very much 4e - so I seem to be getting a hang of the idea...

This map was inspired by Avatar (the movie), I just seen it for the first time last night at a friend house who has an HD TV and this was a blu-ray disc version (awesome flick by the way.) This is my version of a slightly more generic Sky Mountains map (the Halleluyah Mountains).

[Gidde]

Ha, just finished watching that movie + the Rifftrax for it (which I highly recommend btw). GP, the fact that you "whipped that up before dinner" has me in jealous awe. Looks great.

[Ascension]

That does look nice. I don't know the first thing about 4e rules, haven't played since 84 and used red box then, but I support the idea of following a set of guidelines. What those might be for 4e vs. 3 or whatever I have no idea.

[Gamerprinter]

@ Ascension, I know that in looking at the above map, you might wonder what's different about it versus any other map, and while on the surface it might seem nothing - read NK's notes and Tilts, as well as mine. First the map area should be big, no tiny chambers and halls a 4e fight needs room to move. Secondly notice how the map has access from several directions: the rope bridge across to whatever is south of this area, the main structure hints at something more off map to the east, and the vine coming from the west. Bad guys in 4e aren't necessarily all in the combat zone at the start of a fight, they come in from all over the place, so a map needs places for combatants to arrive from different directions. Many of my maps don't fit that paradigm, and this one does. Finally you need columns, pitfalls, places for encounters to hide or to allow access from everywhere - that's the requirement for a 4e map.

@ Gidde, regarding my speed at mapping. Several things:

1. I run a graphic arts shop and have been doing this pretty much as a one-man-show. So to get anything done, I need to work at a high rate of speed. I've practiced doing that for 16 years. So in transferring that mentality to maps, I'm just used to working fast, so ideas don't get lost in hours or days of trying to get it done.

2. The same software I use to map, is the primary app in my day business to I'm very familiar with the software, and in my opinion Xara Xtreme allows me to work quickly as the app is fast and easy to use. My familiarity with the app, makes creating stuff to match my design speed. Xara is a vector app, so its a matter of creating a shape, applying a photo texture, then add bevels and drop shadow and I'm done with that element ready to move on to the next. As a vector app, I can always create another layer to place beneath something I created or put something new on top.

3. Once I have a clear idea on what I need to make in my head, I just run with it - the map took me three hours to create. I have created those jungle palm trees a couple years ago, so like map objects I just grab what I need to pepper across the map. While I enjoy doing hand-drawn stuff, that takes much longer, at least 3 to 4 times as long as doing the same as a strictly digital map, as the one above. I often use photo images for my textures, so I'm not painting anything. Its just draw a shape, apply a texture add finishing touches and move to the next element.

Plus having three years experience creating maps - I have a very good idea what techniques to use to create any element. That vine for instance, I've never made such a thing before, but once I conceive what I want, I know what to do to get it done.

So its a combination of practice, knowing what you want ahead time, familiarity with software and working fast. And don't worry your not alone, many here think I'm some kind of machine at the speed that I create things. I'm a busy guy and have lots on my plate - I can't waste hours and days just making a single map. I have to go, go, go. But that's just me - I'm not a patient guy.

GP

[tilt]

@GP, don't think any of the posts are decidedly against 4e and personally I'll play anything as long as I get to play ... and I actually don't think that people in here would start an edition war anyway, they are to nice
Very nice map, and yes, I could see that working in a 4e combat. I also feel that you sum up pretty nicely what makes a 4e map special. Space, entries, hazards ... hmmm that could be the "keyfrase". Just want to mention that one could work with small rooms - but you'll have to work with several of them so the combat could flow from room to room and new enemies could arrive from unopened doors and such, and a tight corridor could actually work nicely as a "hazard" if you set up the encouter right. In the group where I am player (10th level swordmage) we are all based much on mobility and when we are pinned down we are prone to loose..

[Jaxilon]

Seems to me this should be great for making some maps. I'm up for it. Provided I have the time when the challenge gets underway.

I agree with GP about the customer base. That's the reason I would want to make maps for it as well. More folks can benefit from it.

[NeonKnight]

Yeah, another thing about 4e is all monsters have 'roles'. These roles are loosely define, and monsters tend to fit within one more than others. As example of the roles (and types of monsters that fit in them) are:

ARTILLERY: These monsters normally sit in the back, and lob ranged attacks at the party. Their ranged attacks will be better than melee attacks and their power/abilities will benefit ranged attacks. Think Manticores, goblin snipers, etc.

BRUTES: These big, lumbering monstrosities hit hard, but not often. Think Big Trolls and Ogres. They may be a little slow to hit you (i.e. don't hit often), but when they do hit, it will hurt! They are also easy to hit back, and will have a lot of hit points to reflect their toughness. They will be front line fighters. Examples: Trolls, Ogres, Some Giants, Barbarians

CONTROLLERS: These are similar to artillery, but not quite. A Wizard who throws fireballs around is artillery, but a wizard who throws spells that block paths, creates walls of fire, or freezes a character in place is a Controller. These monsters basically try to controll areas of the battlefield and force characters to travel different routes around the battlefield. Examples: Most Nagas, Wizards, Harpies, Ropers

LURKERS: These monsters like to sneak about and try and 'backstab' for extra damage. They will have abilities that allow them to sneak about (illsuions, invisibility etc) to gain a brief advantage, and allow them to get out of combat quickly as well to start the process all over again. Assassins, thieves, Imps, etc are Lurkers.

SKIRMISHERS: These monsters are middle of the road monsters. They could have a smattering of abilities from the others. They are adept at getting in and hurting their opponents, and can get around easily. Think Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds, wolves, and any other 'generic' type monster.

SOLDIERS: The final role is that of the Soldier. Soldiers have HIGH defenses but lower hit points than Brutes (easier to Kill [Low HP] but harder to hit [HIGH AC]). They hit easily (HIGH Attack scores) but don't do a lot of damage (they 'nickle & dime' you to death). Example: Orc Elite, Knights, Dwarves/Duergar

[NeonKnight]

Yeah, another thing about 4e is all monsters have 'roles'. These roles are loosely define, and monsters tend to fit within one more than others. As example of the roles (and types of monsters that fit in them) are:

ARTILLERY: These monsters normally sit in the back, and lob ranged attacks at the party. Their ranged attacks will be better than melee attacks and their power/abilities will benefit ranged attacks. Think Manticores, goblin snipers, etc.

BRUTES: These big, lumbering monstrosities hit hard, but not often. Think Big Trolls and Ogres. They may be a little slow to hit you (i.e. don't hit often), but when they do hit, it will hurt! They are also easy to hit back, and will have a lot of hit points to reflect their toughness. They will be front line fighters. Examples: Trolls, Ogres, Some Giants, Barbarians

CONTROLLERS: These are similar to artillery, but not quite. A Wizard who throws fireballs around is artillery, but a wizard who throws spells that block paths, creates walls of fire, or freezes a character in place is a Controller. These monsters basically try to controll areas of the battlefield and force characters to travel different routes around the battlefield. Examples: Most Nagas, Wizards, Harpies, Ropers

LURKERS: These monsters like to sneak about and try and 'backstab' for extra damage. They will have abilities that allow them to sneak about (illsuions, invisibility etc) to gain a brief advantage, and allow them to get out of combat quickly as well to start the process all over again. Assassins, thieves, Imps, etc are Lurkers.

SKIRMISHERS: These monsters are middle of the road monsters. They could have a smattering of abilities from the others. They are adept at getting in and hurting their opponents, and can get around easily. Think Orcs, Goblins, Kobolds, wolves, and any other 'generic' type monster.

SOLDIERS: The final role is that of the Soldier. Soldiers have HIGH defenses but lower hit points than Brutes (easier to Kill [Low HP] but harder to hit [HIGH AC]). They hit easily (HIGH Attack scores) but don't do a lot of damage (they 'nickle & dime' you to death). Example: Orc Elite, Knights, Dwarves/Duergar

[tilt]

and while your at it, one of the great "inventions" in 4e is minions. They are fully functional monsters that can only take one hit - thus giving the opportunity to have some great battle scenes where 20-30 enemies storm at your party only to be cut down by the dozen - but they might damage you hard first if you're unlucky

[Gamerprinter]

The day before I created the map above, I created this map, which really needs the island to the south in a more complete form, but I only made a 24 x 36 map, using Xara again, and in about 3 hours as well. Its not as well done as the previous, but I thought I'd post it as well. Follows the same paradigm as well. This a bridge from the shore to an island. Whether this is a lake or the calm sea, I don't know, just wanted a waterside map.

GP