What is an appropriate pay range for this/these?

[S.Schloesser]

That is not as easy as you ask.
The style, dimensions, DPI, timeframe are things to be considered. Also a lot of artist don't really like to speak about their rates in the open.
Why? That binds you. That means that a big ass company expects the same rates as a small indie studio. It means your prices of 3 years back are still in discussion everytime you get an commission.

Anyway. I send you a PM with a bit more info. Perhaps that helps.

[jwbjerk]

3 continental maps (the basics already exist, but they need refinement and to be re-done in a more professional manner - and most features are open to adjustment/editing).

So let us see your map. It is a lot easier to estimate if we can see your sketch and get an ide of how much content and detail you are trying to cram into it. There's a big different in the ammount of work it takes to do 50 cities, 20 rivers 8 mountain ranges and 100 islands vs 12 cities 3 rivers, 2 mountains and 3 islands, even if both fit on the same size page.

[hephalumph]

That is not as easy as you ask.
The style, dimensions, DPI, timeframe are things to be considered. Also a lot of artist don't really like to speak about their rates in the open.
Why? That binds you. That means that a big ass company expects the same rates as a small indie studio. It means your prices of 3 years back are still in discussion everytime you get an commission.

Anyway. I send you a PM with a bit more info. Perhaps that helps.

This seems to be, to me, a mistake. Maybe I am the one who is wrong here, but I have worked in the art/crafting industries (I've moved from graphics design and website development, into woodworking) for the last 17 years without a day job, supporting my family - so I think I do know a thing or two. Maybe cartography is different. I find it odd, and wrong. To me, it drives me away. If you cannot freely and publicly post at least a general guideline, with the caveat that individual quotes will vary depending on whatever factors, you're either hiding something, or you don't know the value of your own work, and so will potentially cheat me (even if unintentionally).

[J.Edward]

hephelumph - I've been pretty straight forward with you. I sent you a PM to discuss it further.
Some of us do this as our day job. So we do this every day. And not just for maps.
I do general illustration as well.

This was posted in Mapmaking Requests [Other] which infers that it is not an active request, for an active paying job.
Specifics were not given, nor was an email for us to respond with quotes based on the specifics [that weren't given].
Several people gave you some ballpark figures, including myself - you want specific quotes, then in all fairness, give specific information.

If this is an active job that you want real quotes for, then I would suggest posting it as an active [Paid] map request.
You posed it as a general question, and people responded to it as a general question.

I'm sorry if you feel that you didn't get what you were after.

If you want a realistic quote for this, here goes...
1 global map - $3-400+
3 continent region maps - $3-800+/-
at least 10 town/city maps - minimum $150 per map and up [depending on a lot of factors]
at least 10 battlemaps - $150-250+/-

each map could be a quarter page simple b+w or a full page color monster... or larger than standard page
[no specifics given regarding size, level of detail, deadline, style, or anything else really]
so that gives a rough ballpark of $2900-6700 plus copyright.
And that is really rough, as no real specifics were provided.

Now I ask you, why are you so quick to make judgements about people here on the Guild?
People have been coming here and making map requests successfully for years, and they get good results.
They don't usually approach it this way though.

They make a [Paid] Map Request with specifics, add an email, we respond, they field offers, they make a decision, they hire someone, request closes and someone starts working on maps.
It's that simple.

[S.Schloesser]

This seems to be, to me, a mistake. Maybe I am the one who is wrong here, but I have worked in the art/crafting industries (I've moved from graphics design and website development, into woodworking) for the last 17 years without a day job, supporting my family - so I think I do know a thing or two. Maybe cartography is different. I find it odd, and wrong. To me, it drives me away. If you cannot freely and publicly post at least a general guideline, with the caveat that individual quotes will vary depending on whatever factors, you're either hiding something, or you don't know the value of your own work, and so will potentially cheat me (even if unintentionally).

I do know the value of my work but if I do ask for that for every project from every single individual I won't be able to work for long.
I will take way less money from a single person who wants a map for his D&D campaign world he uses for his private group if I am between jobs (part of that is because I will retain more rights to the artwork then but part is simply that I know he has not the money).
I will take a more appropriate price if Wizards of the Coasts ask me to make the very same map for their next product.

My prices also changed within the last 3 years considerable. Because I got better.

In my offline print portfolio there is a rough price list but that I can reprint whenever I want. Whatever I write here is here forever.

Besides you got my PM with real estimates for me.

[jpstod]

Do you intend to digitally distribute the Maps or Strictly in print form?
I use Campaign Cartographer 3 to produce my Maps at all Scale.
No Original Art..just commercial available Non-restricted art

Area Maps ($250 Each): World..Regional...City Maps

Encounter Maps ($50 each level): Non 1"=5' detailed maps
True Battle Maps ($100 each level) (designed to fit a 24"x36" area)

[sword peddler]

Just to add to the conversation: at my current rates, assuming you needed all of the work done (including 70 towns, 40 battles, etc), this would be quoted at or around twelve thousand dollars, and that is the bulk discount. You also need to take into consideration things like revisions, and stipends. I wouldn't commit to that kind of work without half or more up front or a monthly stipend counted towards the final bill; the volume is so great that I wouldn't be able to bring in other work until your order was 80 to 90 percent done. I do cartography professionally though, so maybe a hobbyist would quote you half of what I would?

You mentioned somewhere in this thread that "not all maps would have the highest detail." I cannot speak for other cartographers, but in general most professionals set a high minimum price for maps regardless of size and detail. That is to keep everything worth our time. Last I checked the industry standard is about or between 75 and 100 USD for something roughly 2 inches by 3 inches and in black & white.

I also want to add something about the "percentage of sales" offer. I personally never take a job with any sort of promise of royalties or sales percentage, no matter who the author is. I currently turn down, easily, a gig a week because of unsafe payment offers. Because I do this every day, I can't sit around and wait for a check for a few bucks every month. The only time I could see myself doing a sales percentage gig is if the product is going to be offset printed, with a guarantee of retail placement and diligent marketing campaign. Can you show me receipts for advertising and placement? Is there a movie tie-in? Then maybe, just maybe. Basically I probably wouldn't even do sales percentage gigs ever, for any reason.

Good art is expensive and the RPG market is always in favor of the artist.

[hephalumph]

Good art is expensive and the RPG market is always in favor of the artist.

I think you misunderstand me. It is not that I feel anyone is too expensive or anything of the sort. Rather, I feel that the vast majority on here are too secretive.

I've heard a few explanations as to why - but none I really believe are valid reasons. Yes, you will occasionally be undercut or outbid. That is the nature of a capitalistic society. And yes, rates can and will vary not only over time as your skills increase, but with each different medium, various job requirements, and etc. But that doesn't prevent the majority of the artistic industry from posting base rates, and including disclaimers as to those variances, or adjusting those base rates over time.

Honestly, it feels like I am getting a lot of hostility for my opinion, so obviously it is a sore spot. I don't know if it is brought up a lot, and that is why, or if there's some other reason for it being so touchy a subject. But I intend no animosity or controversy. I was honestly puzzled at the ubiquitous reticence, and am trying to explain my experience and help you guys out. I am not the foremost expert. I have only my personal successes and experiences (and fairly dated business degrees) to go on. But it is contrary to what I know to be good practice, and so I posted the query to clarify what was going on, and then gave my advice.

And as to percentage of sales - I only included that because I see it posted in here a lot, and had a few PMs indicating it would be not only acceptable, but to some preferable. I realize it is a gamble, and I suppose some here are willing to gamble in hopes of a greater return. I am like you, I would almost* never accept that in lieu of direct payment.

*to date, it has been absolutely never. But who knows, one day there may be an adequate offer that I agree to!

[sword peddler]

I think you misunderstand..etc[/I]

I definitely don't get the vibe that you are being hostile or anything like that and I certainly don't think this is a bad conversation. I can, however, give some insight into the vague answers you get from artists; namely that talking about art and money sucks. That is the big one. Whether I am talking about money and maps in a private email conversation, or selling a painting (which is rare these days) at the local art gallery, talking about money makes me sweat. Plain and simple it just sucks. It physically hurts to get an email for a commission and go through the process of explaining rates and costs only to be told that the price is too high. If I don't get enough gigs going, then I can't pay my bills. Then I have to worry about if that person hires a lowballer and then gets asked about it. That conversation tends to go something like "Well I asked Cecil, but his rate was too high so I hired this other goof who charges way less and uses Inkarnate" and that hurts business. Especially if the final art looks terrible and I know I could have done a better job.

Which brings me to the next point; it is hard to give an exact quote on an ambiguous project. I don't give out final quotes until I see the art order. Very rarely is the case that I say yes or give a price blindly. You'd get a better quote with a formal art order.

Another reason is that we get tracked here, on the internet. I don't want to get an email for an order, quote the project, get the job, finish the work, and then when I send out the invoice get an email that says "Well I saw on the CG forums that you were willing to do the same amount of work for less" or "hey man thanks for selling me this so cheap, I'll tell all my friends how cheap you are so they can also get cheap work!"

Continuing; I will not ever disclose how much money a publisher or purchaser has paid for a specific work to another publisher or purchaser. On several occasions someone has asked how much was paid for certain maps in my portfolio. I am not going to tell them, that is none of their business. Often times we work inside of a project budget rather than our usual rates. Some times we low ball a bid simply because the work is great. I've had the pleasure of illustrating maps for some RPG industry legends, and I've been paid well but some of those maps I would have done for free, just cause.

And finally, you've asked this question in a community where everyone is extremely friendly but at the same time everyone is competing with one another. Yes, this here is a coterie and people share and discuss rates, but this is not a union. I don't want everyone here to know exactly what I get paid, and I don't want to know what other people are getting paid. For me personally, I do all of my work on paper or canvas in traditional mediums. It takes a bit more time, and there isn't an undo button when I screw it up. I don't want to know that someone is using the same recycled photoshop brushes for mountains in everything they do and also make more money than me, when all of my mountains are hand drawn and unique.

Hopefully that sheds some light on things. I think this is a great thread.

[Midgardsormr]

You've said at least a couple of times have you do or have worked in the art/illustration space. Most professional fantasy cartographers bid projects similarly to illustration, with perhaps a small increase to account for the greater density of detail. And as with illustration, the price can vary wildly depending on the needs of the project. I've posted this link in the past, I think: http://www.illustratorsonline.com/we...riceguide.html

Down there in section 8, you see $250 - $1500 per illustration.

I am comfortable telling you that my current freelance rate is $60 / hour, or a day rate of $600. I wouldn't be comfortable telling you how much I'd charge for a map because, without a detailed bid request, I cannot estimate how much time the project would take. In addition, there are a lot of factors that would change my base rate, as it is based on doing visual effects with short timelines for Hollywood productions. I haven't done a rate calculation for illustration/cartography because I seldom work in that field.

Some artists do wish to keep their rates secret for various reasons. They're professionals and adults, and that's their prerogative. You are free to work with them or not, as you choose. Others are reluctant to give you a firm number because the only reasonable answer is "It depends." To give you any other answer would be dishonest.

Finally, if you are sensing some hostility, I think it's earned:

If you cannot freely and publicly post at least a general guideline, with the caveat that individual quotes will vary depending on whatever factors, you're either hiding something, or you don't know the value of your own work, and so will potentially cheat me (even if unintentionally).

"Hey guys, you're either crooks or stupid." To be honest, my opinion is that everyone has been more than courteous.