What am I actually naming?

[J.Edward]

Looking back at the map I would have assumed it was a region, maybe a country.
I think I sort of see the problem, or a problem. The text seems like it's just there... not really tied to any particular land or feature or anything.
Some people will do things like - land of Erethos, realm of Estra, kingdom of Thyandul, Alterom region, etc.
The descriptive word helps say what that text means.

With the Ulthui map the text kind of floats there without being obvious what it's referring to.

[Sarithus]

Looking back at the map I would have assumed it was a region, maybe a country.
I think I sort of see the problem, or a problem. The text seems like it's just there... not really tied to any particular land or feature or anything.
Some people will do things like - land of Erethos, realm of Estra, kingdom of Thyandul, Alterom region, etc.
The descriptive word helps say what that text means.

With the Ulthui map the text kind of floats there without being obvious what it's referring to.

I suppose that is part of the issue. But that's what the map of middle earth looks like to me. The region of Minhiriath floats within what I assume is the boundary of the country (larger name, larger area) Eriador.
http://www.tolkien.co.uk/file/IfbTdA...8c691eb83d.jpg

Evidently I need to move away from Tolkien maps if it's confusing.

[J.Edward]

Yeah, I can see what you mean there. The only thing I can say regarding Tolkien's vs your own is that with Tolkien's the regions are bounded more by land features [river, hills, forest] and yours don't have that. It doesn't mean yours must have that but it seems to be what makes it seem like they are floating.
The problem seems to be with regions/countries that are further inland and have no specific land features that bound them or are connected to them.

[Midgardsormr]

The map doesn't exist independent of the people who will use it. If the people who are looking at the map know what Fohn is, then there's no reason to call it County Fohn or the Realm of Fohn. That information is already inherent in the word. We don't have to call something the Nation of France on a map because most people already know that France is a nation. Likewise, on Tolkien's map, he didn't bother saying what Rhovanion or Eriador were because the people who used the map already knew that Rhovanion was all the land east of the Misty Mountains and west of the Sea of Rhun, encompassing several political entities, but being more a geographic and historical description. These words are similar to our terms "Asia Minor" or "the Amazon."

On Tolkien's map the geographic regions were more important than national labels because there were few strong kingdoms at the time the map was made. Rhudaur was barely a kingdom, and Arnor had been reduced to a few wandering woodsmen. Rhovanion had a few minor strongholds of civilization, but the elves of Mirkwood and Lorien, as well as the dwarves of the Iron Hills, were insular, Laketown was merely a small city-state, and Smaug had pretty well burned out the rest of the kingdoms in the area.

So it comes down to the usage of the map. If it's for your own reference and you don't have a strong feeling for what's a geographic label and what's a kingdom, then you should probably include that kind of information on the map. Maybe add some political borders so you can see exactly what areas the different nations encompass, and that will also help geographic regions to stand out, since their labels will cross those borders.

[J.Edward]

Midgard, my suggestion was just related to the question. If he wants to write a book and inform people what the map means via prose [as Tolkien did] so be it.
But if a map is just set in front of an observer with no info or context then things like nation, realm, blah blah can be helpful for people to know what the names are for.
That was all I was meaning by that suggestion.
I don't have a personal preference for how he does it.
Whatever works for him to convey what he wants to convey.

[Midgardsormr]

I was actually agreeing with you, only in reverse. Saying why we don't see that on Tolkien's map or maps of the real world, but we do on maps where we don't have that background information already in our heads.

[J.Edward]

Ah, got it.

[Azélor]

How do you guys name in regards to language? If you have a map of a continent (with more than one country) is each 'region' name of a different language or one common tongue?

I had thought that my continent of Ulthui, with many different countries in it, was made by someone from Thyandul and that all the place names where in the language of that country and that Egura for example wold be called something different to the people that live in Egura. Though Ulthui is part of the Turinath Empire and so I suppose it could all be one common language, but I'm not sure how realistic that is.

I need to get this sorted out before I move onto naming my other continent of Saranai in the same world as Ulthui, but this thread has just confused me more.

Edit: I think something that I might not be doing enough is naming towns. I know this is modern vs fantasy but looking at google maps region names aren't so much a thing and most of the names are for towns.

I name things according to the local culture, the official name using the same script. I tend to find a culture similar to the one I want in that area and take the name accordingly. It can have a real signification or it just sound similar. Some of these names are not definitive but if I decide to keep them, they will be fine. This gets more complicated for places like oceans/mountain ranges since they might have multiple names. Ideally it would be named according to the dominant culture in the area. It's also possible to take a more standard name like: Eastern sea. Even then, not everyone think it's in the east...

[Azélor]

About names in Google Earth: I don't know where you are looking but Canadian provinces and American states do appear on the maps. It must be something in the program that hides them if there is a lot cities. Large divisions like Scotland and Wales also appear on the map but most of UK administrative divisions are hidden because Google prefer to display the cities.

[fabio p]

You have to consider that place names reflect very complex realities.
Toponomastics is not necessarily simple because of the often incredibly complex underlying reality stratified by history. For example, you can have the name of a region, which is also the name of a nation: take the example of Macedonia: it is a region of Greece, and it is also a slavic nation north of the greek border; where Macedonia begins and where it ends, it’s a source of bitter debates between Macedonians and Greeks, not to mention that the Greeks would want to be the only ones that can boast of the name "Macedonia", for the inhabitants of the region in northern Greece, while disputing the name of “Macedonia” to the Republic of Macedonia.
This is just one example.

So, as almost everyone has observed, to give names to places, you have to understand who is reading the map, what is the point of view you prefer to fulfill. If you draw a map of the Balkans for a Greek, rather than for a resident of the Republic of Macedonia, you can use a different name placing approach as appropriate; to a “ neutral” third person you could have yet another approach.

Then there is the level of depth: have you to illustrate the geographical features of a map? or is this a political map or a mixed political-geographical map that you are drawing? Or have you to explain to a student the complex layering of cultures that resides in the portion of the world that you're drawing? Or are you preparing the map for a general who is starting a military campaign? The variables are varied (almost limitless), and based on these multiple variables you will choose how to name places and which place to name.