Road structure and representation...

[Redrobes]

Most of the roman roads I see are pretty straight but not at all flat.

[RobA]

This has turned into an interesting discussion on evolution of transportation systems. A fellow engineer has often told me that if there were no pre-existing paved roads and the question of developing large scale local and distance goods and person transport, no same person would come up with the idea of paving over millions of square km's in flat smooth surfaces so that a generic 3 box wheeled device could travel on it. The three boxes being a box to hold motive power, a box to hold people, an a box to hold cargo, usually arranged in that linear order, with the size ratios depending on the actual function.

Bit of a side track here, but I would think for a future/alien/alternate history world, roads might just not have happened, or (as Waldonrate stated) survived.

-Rob A>

[surfarcher]

This has turned into an interesting discussion!


Juggernaut1981,
Nice idea! Unfortunately Rock to Mud didn't make the cut to 4e but there's no reason it or something similar couldn't have been used by the engineering teams who built the roads.


Everyone else,
I'm enjoying the ideas and thoughts immensely!

[Ascension]

Whatever you decide just make sure that you don't let the drunken orcs build the roads or else they will be all over the place

[Juggernaut1981]

Juggernaut1981,
Nice idea! Unfortunately Rock to Mud didn't make the cut to 4e but there's no reason it or something similar couldn't have been used by the engineering teams who built the roads.

Surfarcher:
Just one more reason why I think 4E = Epic Fail. (Or at least the bare minimum... not D&D anymore, just like D&D is not tabletop wargaming).

[surfarcher]

And 3.x was? Not to me - it wasn't what I cut my teath on when I started DMing in 1981.

I really think it all depends on your perspective and your gaming history and gaming needs.

For many of us BXCMI and AD&D were and are "real" D&D and everything since is increasingly diluted and aberrant. I personally love lite rules but for my current crop of players 4e is the best choice - they are mostly new to RPGs or have been away for a while (like I had been until 18 months ago or so). 4e is good for folks in that kind of position.

If you loved 3.x you should consider shifting to Pathfinder. 3.x is very much alive and growing under the Pathfinder banner (many refer to Pathfinder as D&D 3.75e).

On the other hand if you loved 1e (AD&D) it's alive and well as a free system called OSRIC.

Personally I live in hope that some of my current crop of players mature in roleplaying to the point they are willing to give BFRPG the opportunity it (and they) so richly deserve.


Getting back on topic...
It seems defense/the military has always played a prominent role in the development of roads major planned roads, to some extent even in the modern era. Those have historically been a significant factor in the development of towns and cities too - many of those have grown out of a fort of some sort set in a good defensive position with good supply lines (typically near a river or harbour) and grow to commence from there.

Is there a guide or anything on here about considerations to give and think through when designing a fictional map? I've gotten a lot out of this thread so far and would be happy to write up this discussion to add to that if folks think it would be useful.

I'm also looking forward to reading anything else folks have to share.


Cheers!

[Juggernaut1981]

From the semi modern era (post industrial revolution, and post development of working steam engines) RAIL is the major military transport tool for all resources that can't move a decent speed under their own power. Most infantry movements were made during WWII by a combination of large trucks and heavy rail. The Germans transported the majority of semi-mobile artiller via rail, significant amounts of goods and more. Most of the time things were only transported by road after they'd been transported by rail to a major hub and then distributed.

RE: 3.xE D&D. I was a 2nd-Ed player. I loved the streamlined nature of the 3.xEditions, but the problem for me about 4E is the way that it seriously feels like there is no "risk of death/failure" in the system. Heroes need to have the chance for massive catastrophic failure, or they are nothing but "corrective devices within the system" (like Neo is intended to be in the Matrix, a self correcting fault that restores the world to order).

[icosahedron]

This has turned into an interesting discussion on evolution of transportation systems. A fellow engineer has often told me that if there were no pre-existing paved roads and the question of developing large scale local and distance goods and person transport, no same person would come up with the idea of paving over millions of square km's in flat smooth surfaces so that a generic 3 box wheeled device could travel on it. The three boxes being a box to hold motive power, a box to hold people, an a box to hold cargo, usually arranged in that linear order, with the size ratios depending on the actual function.

Bit of a side track here, but I would think for a future/alien/alternate history world, roads might just not have happened, or (as Waldonrate stated) survived.

-Rob A>

I'm curious, what does your friend propose as an alternative?

[Juggernaut1981]

What are the other two main forms of human transport: Rail & Shipping. Basically imagine a world where there was light, medium and heavy rail dominating the landscape. Buses would not exist, they'd have been replaced with light rail. Commuters would use medium rail systems and all cargo would be transported by a heavy rail network.

Goods would probably get transported around at the final point by either human power, animal power, or by some kind of over-glorified forklift.

Then of course, that reveals little else except my general belief in public transport being superior to private transport.

[rdanhenry]

There's nothing wrong with private transportation. I'm sure there would be plenty of bicycles in use.