15 - [Inner] The Ward of Erahum [Mouse]

[Mouse]

Thank you, Ilanthar

It took me nearly a week to get just that much done. I was faffing around with the colours for three days, so I'm glad you approve.

I'm currently trying to decide whether I really need to do this in two halves just so that I can enlarge it by another 50% and work at 3x the original size, or if I can get away with continuing it at this size and in one piece. I was working at 4x original size before, but those files are no longer accessible because of the sheer number of layers they have. If I learn to be more efficient with my layers and limit myself to no more than 5 layers per file, and if I split it into two again now that I've established the base colours...

All these thoughts - and if I make a wrong decision about something right now it could have some serious consequences in the future. I've restarted this section in particular at least twice before this time, so I'm really keen for this to be the final attempt, and for it to be a successful attempt.

Decisions, decisions....

[Azélor]

I'm working at 2x the original size on my new district. So far as you can see, I can still have plenty of details.
I guess it depend on what style you are aiming for.

5 layers per file is a very strict limit.
The real problem is not the number of layers but the total pixel contained in total
Plain colour layers don't take a lot of resources, textures takes a lot more.
White Hill was around 80-90 mb without the parchment texture in the background.
It doubled the file size with the addition of just one layer and it only covers the border of the map, not the centre (about half of the map maybe).
Having a lot of textures stacked over each other makes the size of the file explode.

White hill and my Planets of Hats challenge had a lot of layers. Each planetary system was in a group, each planets had a subgroup with several layers.
Without the background 74 mb, with background 222 mb.

Oh and by the way, my computer is pretty much as old as yours (older if yours is just a young 3 years old baby)
4 gb ram
I also have a dual core cpu, but with multi-threading I have 4 cores, 2 of them are virtual. Not sure if it is as good as having 4 real cores.

[Mouse]

It sounds like you do have a very similar PC to mine, since the reason I was fooled into believing I had 4 cores was because in Vue I am told the number is "CPU = 4". So, Vue uses the two virtual cores as well as the two real ones, but I bet some of my software doesn't know how to utilise that particular facility. Can GIMP or Krita use virtual cores? If they don't, then that might explain a lot of my problems.

I know what you mean about textured layers, which is why I only have two texture layers in this current file - the paper texture is overlaid on top of everything else. The paper itself is a solid layer of creamy colour right at the bottom of the stack, and the other three layers are the 'base map', 'colour' (which I count as a texture because there are several colours on it already) and 'relief' (the relief shading). If I wasn't having a problem with the size of the file I would also have a 'highlight' layer and separate the colour layer into 'vegetation' and 'rock'. There would also be a 'shadow' layer separate and distinct from the relief shading. The way I've decided to manage it is to have a series of files. This one will become "Background", and the png I export from it will be just one layer in a new file where I will add the walls, roads and buildings - or maybe just the walls, before I start a third file that will have the background and walls exported from the second file as a png as a single layer. And so on, until I have all the details I want in a series of files that each provide exported pngs as the single background layer for the next in the series.

Complicated? Oh yes, but its probably about the best way I know how to deal with this issue before I manage to either update this machine or get a bigger one

I don't really understand how your files are so small. The five layer one that produced the last map in this thread was already 909MB in Krita. Today, since I've been adjusting the detail of the cliffs, that has gone up to 1.2 GB, even though I haven't added any more layers. I guess that must be the more complicated pattern of colours I now have on the colour layer!

Time to export to a new file, I think!

I was working at 4x the original size. I think my style doesn't really lend itself to working much smaller than that because I use colour a lot more than I use line, and there is not as great a contrast between rock and grass as there is when you draw a dark line on a pale background.

I am about to try enlarging what I've got to 3x original size... wish me luck!

[Azélor]

My map it wrong challenge map psd file is 12.3 mb https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=38882
That is really small.

But the map is what I would consider pretty small : 1970 x 1130
2,2 megapixels

Kingdom in the clouds (guildworld) 591mb. Still using mostly one real texture layer.
8728 x 8791
or 76 megapixels.

It has a lot to do with the size of the file.
I remember that when I was working on my personal campaign, the file was a lot bigger.
30 000 x 20 000 or something, over 500 megapixels if my memory is right. But I guess your map is not as big.
My map was far from finished and around 1.5 gb when I stopped working on it.
I had to go do something else while it saved the map because it took several minutes.

If your file is 5318 × 4500 and far from finished, I don't understand how you already are over 1 gb.
Was it the same thing in Gimp? Are the files that big?

Your solution can work but it's complicated if you have to change something afterwards.

[Mouse]

I'm not sure why my files are so large, really. I just know what it says at the bottom of the screen as I'm working on them.

I know alterations are tricky, but at least they will be possible if there is always a file somewhere in the series that has the original layers. Its better than merging things down and loosing the ability to modify the shading, for example.

As always, I will probably learn a whole ton of stuff by making mistakes

[Ilanthar]

By Mouse
I'm not sure why my files are so large, really. I just know what it says at the bottom of the screen as I'm working on them.

If you're looking at what Krita is saying, it's more a view of the ressources (RAM) needed to process the file when you're working on (or so I suspect). If you're looking at the size of the file in explorer, it's much smaller.
For example, my working version of my District is about 836 Mo in Krita, but "only" 166 Mo in explorer.

[Mouse]

Then its taking far too much to process, considering I only have a total RAM of 4GB. I assume that if it gets too close to 2 GB (half the available RAM) Krita will either freeze or crash because the OS is using the other 2GB, so now that I have decided I need to work at 3x original because of my style, I may need to cut the area in half again and go back to Erahum Ward and the Borough of Lurkin.

[Azélor]

As always, I will probably learn a whole ton of stuff by making mistakes

Yes. Do a lot of mistakes them.

If you're looking at what Krita is saying, it's more a view of the ressources (RAM) needed to process the file when you're working on (or so I suspect). If you're looking at the size of the file in explorer, it's much smaller.
For example, my working version of my District is about 836 Mo in Krita, but "only" 166 Mo in explorer.

Photoshop does the same thing. Weird numbers in the bottom I never bother with.
The tack manager should tell how much ram it takes.
With Photoshop, I can set the maximum ram allowed but with 4 gb, we are already at max.

[Mouse]

Since its the RAM I'm having trouble with, I think I will look to increase it to 8GB as soon as I can

[Redrobes]

To use 8Gb of ram you need a 64bit processor (which I think you have) and the OS needs to be 64bit which I reckon Win10 ought to be and the app needs to be built as 64bit which if the OS is 64bit is very likely. If any of these is not true then it will run in compatibility mode and only use 3Gb of ram.

It sounds like you have a dual core with hyperthreading. The number of cores in such a setup is reported as 4 but you actually have two. But each of those two has two working parts to them so that each core can process two things at once. So some of the processes involved with working with data cannot be done at 2x speed and some can. It depends on what it is that your doing. Would Gimp and Krita use those extra cores - not sure but would probably not generally, but when you come to do something like a flood fill, or a selection or a filter like blur or sharpen then probably it would. At least you would hope so...

For images and layers the file size on disk is irrelevant. Without some special paging (which I think photoshop does do) most images are fully uncompressed in ram when your working on them. Normally that means width x height x 4 bytes per layer. If it cant allocate that amount of ram at the time you want to open the file or add a new layer then it aborts that operation or fails to load the file.

If your using a greyscale mask as a layer then it helps if you set the image mode to greyscale then its width x height x 1 byte. You can save a lot of ram that way for no effect on the image at all.

In my view, if your sure your cpu is 64 bit capable then get 8Gb of ram. It will make a world of difference to a machine that is short on it. I looked it up that is about £60 but presumably you can get something like £10 for your current 4Gb as a trade in. When you get it installed then run a memory checker program on it to make sure its all working. Nothing like having a few dodgy bits of ram not working to generate a lot of really random blue screens. MemTest86 is free and has been used for decades to check your ram.

There was a time when you could burn a bootable copy of memtest86 to a CDRom and then boot the machine to it and in bios it would kick it off and test almost every last bit of it. If you run it from windows then a whole chunk of your ram will have been allocated by that point and not testable. Been a few years since I last used it so I am not sure what its options are now.

EDIT: So just checked - its not necessarily true that your win10 is 64 bit. See this:
https://www.howtogeek.com/228042/how...it-windows-10/