The Town of Koppollex

[pyrandon]

Oops--it was RobA.

Not saying he's wrong, just saying I'm not sure how to remedy that--or if it's possible with this style of map.

[landorl]

I think that the different zoom level makes a huge difference. Now the roofs look good, and the texture on them just appears to be normal roof textures.

I don't have any problems with the bridges, I think that they are a pretty good representation of the bridge.

The roads still don't look quite right. You might want to think a little about varying their width, or smoothing out some of the right angles a bit. Roads are always a challenge though. It's hard to figure out just what to do with them

I like the adjustment to the lighting though, I think it brings out a lot of the detail.

[terrainmonkey]

hey--

great job on this map. it's very good and shows a lot of work and promise. i wish i could do the same thing on corel. i noticed, however, that you were using the RPG random city map designer for this. i downloaded that program and ran it a few times, but i wasn't happy with the results. here's why.

the roads are illogical and don't make any sense in this map. it looks haphazard and unrealistic to me to have all the roads, curved for no reason, going every which way with no thought to community demographics or planning. there's just too many of them first of all, and a few of them are winding for no reason. look at most towns this size and you will find that most roads go strait to the location they need to go. sure, there are exceptions, but that's my opinion. also, buildings are too close to the roads in some cases. there are some buildings that butt up against each other over the road. this is illogical too. town planners wouldn't allow this.

now, i know we're talking about fantasy towns, and this is all hypothetical, but if you have those on a different layer, perhaps you could erase some of them, just to make it more "organized" if you know what i mean.

i've taken your map and crossed out those roads i feel are either redundant or not necessary to the finished map. this creates more solid understandable town "Blocks" like normal towns. just a thought, that's all. i just think this map looks too "busy" as it stands right now. please don't take any of my suggestions as dislike. this is a great map, i'm just offering suggestions that i feel would make it even greater.

[Gamerprinter]

TM, with the RPG City Designer you should notice that on the last template setting is an American City. If you click this the streets and blocks are very straight and square. That's because American cities use a formal geometric system in city layout, moreso than European cities.

IMO, European cities include lots of curved roads, because they originally followed the contours of the land much more closely, then here in US. Our engineers blast the obstacles away and put up a straight road. Old Europeans followed the curve at the base of a hill, around the edge of a pond.

As time goes on, these obstacle features often get worn down or removed altogether, yet the curved streets remain - this is very European.

I think the curved streets created by RPG CD for European styled cities is very realistic. although this map may be alittle busy, so that's creating a distraction for you. Just my opinion.

[RobA]

I particularly likes the double street in the NE corner. it look like one one goes along the top of a ridge, and one goes along the bottom...

An by a model miniature, I meant that it has lots of photorealistic detail but lacks real world features/oddities/inconsistencies.

-Rob A>

[terrainmonkey]

i'm not saying that every map needs to follow the city planning of american roads. i understand there are towns out there with multiple roads going to the same place. my feeling is that in a fantasy map, some of the roads here are redundant and unnecessary. why have two roads going to the same place? it doesn't make sense. there's also many roads in the town center that i feel are redundant. while it may have made sense in reality, on a fantasy map where clarity is key there's no reason for it. it makes the map look far busier than it needs to be for the sake of realism only. that's my point. don't get me wrong, i'm not dissing this map. there's just no real reason for many of the tracks and roads.

[Naryt]

the roads are illogical and don't make any sense in this map. it looks haphazard and unrealistic to me to have all the roads, curved for no reason, going every which way with no thought to community demographics or planning. there's just too many of them first of all, and a few of them are winding for no reason. look at most towns this size and you will find that most roads go strait to the location they need to go. sure, there are exceptions, but that's my opinion. also, buildings are too close to the roads in some cases. there are some buildings that butt up against each other over the road. this is illogical too. town planners wouldn't allow this.

Having lived in old East Germany for a while (West too but that was before I can actually remember), let me just say that Koppollex puts me very much in the mind set of the places I lived there. Roads that led to nowhere or seemed or actually did just go in a circle for no obvious reason or the occasional road running through homes (OK, the upper story was actually built over the road but still). As for town planners, one city I lived in was celebrating it's 1000th anniversary in 1990 and cattle tracks laid the main roads as often as not.

Compare this google map of Halberstadt's (1000 years old in 1990) city center with Koppollex. Now look at the "squared" roads further out from the city center, those later roads benefited from town planners.

With this google map of a town that started with a very orderly town plan and then relaxed it to accommodate the "need for aesthetic avenues."

it makes the map look far busier than it needs to be for the sake of realism only. that's my point. don't get me wrong, i'm not dissing this map. there's just no real reason for many of the tracks and roads.

Knowing Don as I do, I'm sure he'll see that as a compliment as realism is actually an important issue to him (and his players....gold statues are problematic).

[Joshua_101]

This map is perfect IMO... And I am EAGERLY awaiting this tut because the surrounding area (river, forests, hills) are exactly the style I am trying for with my Elsir Vale Region map.

[pyrandon]

First off, as always, thanks to all for your input. This discussion of roads is particularly useful and interesting! (Odd we've never had a "road discussion" thread before! It's such an important topic.)

I'm with TM on this one IF Koppollex were a "newer" medieval city; roads would have a purpose. But if it were a thousand years old and such Naryt is right: it would not necessarily be that way, although some of the roads would be forgotten, smaller, sidetracks vs. the large, wide roads they are in the map. Were I to go back and change this map I would either 1) add more buildings to give most every street a purpose, or 2) change the thickness & opacity of little-used roads to show that they are in fact little used.

Honestly, as I said originally, my concern with this map is more imagistic: I wanted to create a map that gives the illusion of reality from a distance, and I did little to no thinking about planning, purpose, districts, etc. And, on top of this, I wanted to do it FAST. Both these factors combined result in inconsistencies that I would never abide in a "serious, long-term" map.

TM, you totally rock. Thanks for bringing that up--it generated a very interesting discussion! Thanks to all (and Naryt, that Google map was very interesting--nice post.) Rep all the way around!

Oh, and Joshua, thanks for the vote of confidence. I am beginning to post the tutorial right now, so I hope it helps at least a tiny bit!

Take care,

[Robbie]

This community never ceases to amaze me. I'm SOO glad we can have discussions like this and toss around VERY serious constructive criticism and sometimes very heated debates, but in the end everyone takes it like they should and grows from it. It warms me on the inside...I love you guys!