Reply With QuoteAll good, you seem to know what you're doing.
You've misunderstood.Originally Posted by groovey
The area we are talking about is the area that contains like 20+ hexes, each of which have a diameter of 100km or 200km. I keep forgetting and the size is off the top of my head 3 or 4 times larger than Ancient Greece.
It that area that looks like a triangle with a blunted point on the bottom and a peninsula to the east.
Outside of that area it is pretty much wild country presently.
The history of the areas is more like...
Timerans spread through out the area.
~1525 years ago Erebonans began attacking which lasted around 400-600 years. During this time the Timerans were pushed back towards Timer, but because there were several naturally defendable areas they were establish borders against the Erebonans hordes. These points of defensibility were along the Erubesc River in the North region, but this allowed the Erebonans to still continue west as well as follow the east coast to the south. The area, we're talking about is Valbeyon (Pinon on map) which is another defensible area with a hill/mountain to the north that makes it hard to cross, followed by another river. Obviously a fort crops up here to hold the line and this fort becomes the center of the Northern Valbeyon power.
To the east there is a giant lake/sea which in previous generations was used to transport cargo, but also the port and ships are able to attack the all but helpless Erebonans when they are travelling south and when they attempt to cross at later points they are easily picked off. This port is Okpor, formerly known as Pinon on the map.
To the south, there is still a fairly open entrance to the area, which allowed any Erebonans to stage an attack from here if they got this far. This lead to the third fort and foundation for the 3rd power to form. Not much to really say about it.
Because there was communication and trade between these 3 cities a central city cropped up which was initially funded by the 3 major powers as a central stronghold, but as time went on and the powers became less of a unified group against the Erebonans (c. 1200-800 years ago) as they were being pushed back and out of Sivia the city became independent without problem as trade, travel, communication, all still flowed through it. Further, it became a 'congressional' city of a sorts as traditionally it was where the powers would meet to talk and figure out policies. This place was originally names "Mia's Hollow." because it was the only place in the region where sunlight shown down to the forests floor (ie A hollow point in the forest that sunlight from the Goddess, Mia touched) but was later corrupted to Miallo.
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These 4 powers are not all there should be in the area, but they are, as I say, the major powers. Okpor's Naval power puts them at odds with the Northern and Southern powers as any nation is going to bristle at having another nations military anywhere near them, let alone one with such a power differential. nevertheless waterbound trade all goes through Okpor territory and results in the need to maintain peace between the 3.
Miallo dislikes Okpor as a trade competitor mostly. There is also the double edged sword that Miallo is considered neutral ground, but also have very little in the way of a military and even if they did there is the fact that many of its residents are citizens of other nations which causes discontentment in that position.
I would not be surprised if there was an attempt to circumvent Okpor on the west coast, but was found to be unable to compete traadewise and is only used for private communication between the North and South powers.
Also there is obviously anti-immigration feelings in Miallo and probably dislike of Okpor in the North and South, while Okpor and Miallo probably feel superior to the others in the region to the point that even the immigrants that reside in Miallo feel they are superior to the others of their own national citizenship...
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After ~800 years ago though the 4 states became independent almost completely if not completely. This was due to not really needing to maintain connection and the 4 powers were culturally separate enough for it to not be feasible, however they weren't antagonistic... in fact they couldn't be because the Ourans began attacking at that point which isolated them from each other more. It was a lot less than other nations in the north thanks to the forest, but it was enough to make it extremely dangerous to go traveling between the cities for ~300 years.
Not so much a changing on the cosmology. Timerans hold that Sif is the head deity and the other 11 are aspects of her. This is just their general view of matters, but there was no organized church type thing other than Sif appointing the leaders of the 4 Sifan races and it is assumed that this leadership is hereditary in Timer. (The other areas have other methods of who is the leader from that point). The point is that the only real concrete belief is that the hereditary lineage selected by Sif is the Leader and then they have a vague non-codified view on the deities and their place with regards to each other. When the Timeran culture got split, the north codified and became more church like with Timer becoming a vatican city. The northern leaders in practice are independent nations, but in theory have their crowns conferred upon them by the Timer royalty? and all the leaders attempt to trace their lineage back to the Timer royal line (like a number of kings in europe do with King Arthur)...The process of religious transformation, changing the cosmology, must have been really interesting and long, I guess with lots of resistance at first like any big religious change meets before it spread and eventually became the official one. Did focus of worshipers of the old chief deity survived? Were they persecuted or are they tolerated?
It might even have caused conflict within the community where the change first happened, after all, renouncing the traditional main God, who was so for important reasons, for new ones must feel like a very dangerous bet on their afterlife for a true believer. But of course, it depends on the traits or the religion, how organized it is and how much influence and control has over their believers and the political power. If you religions is similar to how it worked it Egypt in relation to political power, I'd say said change would have met a lot of resistance.
Anyways, in the south, that is to say in Valbeyon they were cut off from Timer, and to a large degree felt abandoned by Sif. However, the Waters played an important role in protecting them and as a result became more and more worshiped over time. Mia on the other hand, became more worshiped due to being associated with Mia's Hollow where commerce, communication, and eventually prosperity and education to a high degree came about. It was also viewed that Mia's Hollow became a place of blessing where the 3 powers could meet, make deals and plans, and have them come to fruition. It gained the reputation that any deal made in Miallo was bound to succeed. Of course Mia had nothing to do with this and it was really due to them working together, (She was busy with the sun, as always ^.^) but its hard to convince people that their beliefs are wrong even when they are flatly shown to be and Mia wasn't going to correct them. Who doesn't like praise? But after it became a saying Mia does reinforce it a bit and help out with deals from time to time.
But yeah... As you can see, the shifting of beliefs wouldn't be that hard
I would say that they largely have, but conflicts are bound to happen. I'm trying to figure out how exactly to have them in conflict but not much ^.^Apart from the religious transformation you mentioned, which would deserve a chapter on its own, at least, if you wrote a History book about the Ligue, what seems lacking is inner conflict. Have the 4 really cohabited peacefully for 725 years?
There isn't really well defined borders. The closer they are to a given major power the more they rely on them, but the general culture of the area is one of independent and rule by the people so whatever the people of a given city decides is generally how it works. The cities do shift from time to time, but that is a rare event. The only time when there is a big issue is when a city on the inside of the borders changes which ends up causing all sorts of problems, but that obviously happens rarely.How did they settle their borders with each other?
Okpor is the strongest militariliy, 2nd strongest in trade due to not many people to trade with outside Valbeyon that they can reach.During such a long period, how did the balance of power shifted? Seems unlikely the four of them are equally powerful, but it's unlikely too that the stronger one would stay so forever. Makes sense that at some points one of them was stronger than the other, but the balance shifted to another, etc.
Miallo is the weakest militarily, 1st strongest in trade.
South is 2nd strongest militarily, but weakest in trade
North is 3rd at both.
Okpor and the South may grow stronger in the future which will change their relative rankings, but as long as the situation remains the way it is and has been they will maintain these relative positions.
I think I answered all the rest in all that, but I need to leave this PC so I can't answer them more directly at moment if you don't see the answer ^.^
All good, you seem to know what you're doing.
that would help a bit but i thing major geo element aka mountians and wood ect.. would add to the value of might to the map.
I have no idea what this comment is in reference to.
Now you got me intrigued about your calendar for your world. Have you made up your mind yet? Or you don't need it?
For this world, due to the nature of it, its some standard calender with modded names. If you're interested though I have several calendars for other worlds that I don't have access to till the get home. One was for a culture that lives underground so all normal time keeping is thrown out ^.^
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Hehe, it's true, since your fictional world was created by people in our world, you can get away with it saying the creators got lazy about it and just used ours.
I'd love to hear about your self made calendars, it might inspire me to figure out mine.
Yay. I'm home. Unfortunately I don't have a website any more so you have to see it to see the converters work...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By0...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By0...ew?usp=sharing
On the first converter...
First date is just a basic Julian 365.25 calendar for reference, from Day 1 till whenever
Second date is again 365.25 calendar that is used by the Human empires that all died out, but still lives on. Nothing different or interesting about it cuz I really didn't think about it much.
Third one is "Draconian" which is based off the gods. There are 8 gods and there are several cycles involved that I'm not sure that I remember. Basically, each god represents an element and so each day, month, year, and cycle coresponds to a god. The last being the 8th god, the god of destruction. At the end of the cycle there is a 9 day celebration not part of any of this, each day representing each element. During this time is the only time when the dragons can becomes adults or something like that and if they fail they're shunned or something (This is like ancient to me so I don't remember all of it) The 9th day is the time of rest and renewel before all starts again. This is the only time 9 is in their culture. Everything else is based on 8, 8 letters, 8 colors, etc.
Fourth one is Dwarven... This was actually hard to come up with because there was no way to keep time that I could figure out due to them being underground. But I did find a few. Basically the moon pulls the tide still and as such results in a noticable difference in where the tides are. This creates a way to divide time and as a result a day in this empire is reconciled as 20 hours, but they're also smiths and love beer and so there is the idea of purification and the time it takes to brew beer which is a 40 day cycle more or less. So their day is divided into 40 hours. They have 40 day months and 40 month years and etc to back to what they call the forging which is when they were created.
The last one is Vampiric calendar which I don't remember much of. I think it's just a calendar that has 10 months, each with 30 days, based around the only female vampire that was turned by the original vampire.
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On the second file, It's just used JDN to set a new version of that at 2085 and making the calender 12 months of 30 days each. This is because a calendar that is for a multistellar civilization that takes into account equinoxes and such is nonsense.
CET is just Earth time while UST is Universal Time...
I have other proposed calendars for this that I came up with in the past, but there is a major problem with them. The reasonable thing to do for calendar if you want to keep the equinoxes is instead of creating this crazy math and rules is just to make the year 1461 days long, but a year that long doesn't feel right so you have to break it back up into 4. So you end up with a human emotional connection which is something you want in a calendar vs general practicality of accurate date keeping. After that point though I just made it a base 60 clock basically and if you go back wards you just count back words like you would on a clock for day, months, years, centuries, etc. This ends up with a very small number to reconcile going backward which makes it far easier for most people to get their heads around. Though I'm not posting that one because it looks too funky and wouldn't work well on a regular Calender without truncating it, losing some of the point of it.
I'd like to do something like you did with number 8, but with number 6. But these past few days my back pains are giving me head aches, so I'm not very focused and I still haven't seriouly got to it.
Say, can your converters be able to guess when a day falls into that 9 days limbo period? Cos I'm thinking I'll need some limbo days to make things fit probably. Like in the Greyhawk calendar and its four 7 days festivals each 3 months that break the months pattern.
If by can it guess you mean can it tell you when a Day number is in that period, yes it can.
If you enter 2627 - 2634 in that converter it will give you that you are in the Month of Morgetar and which day in that you are. They're still recorded as a day/month whatever in some fashion. It's just not in lore an actual month lol.
If you mean, can you give a day/month/year to convert to JDN and then have it switch to that... sorta kinda... It's a little messed up as that is the older one... I could change it to fix it, but Day 1 is Jan 1, Year 1, where as the Day 1 of the calendar in question is March 20th, Year 1. Also I'm pretty sure it is a 365.25 calendar, but I'm not positive and don't feel like trying to figure it out at the moment, but depending on what way you're doing your calender and where your day 1 is it can tell you that March 20th, Year 1 is the 1st of Darusitar in the first year of the first cycle. Like I said, what is happening is that it's taking a day and breaking it down to a number of days since some event and then using a set of equations to build it back up from that to whatever system you want.
Also I have to correct myself about my own lore... There are 8 gods, 7 are elemental, 1 is the goddess of destruction. 7 months are divided 3 sets of 7 for 7 years. At the end of the 8th year, there is a special "year" with a single month which is Morgetar. consisting of 8 days and then a special 9th representing time before time which technically is separate but for convenience is on this calendar. It wouldn't be on an actual calendar made by the civilization. Could I break it apart put on another thing, yesh, but i don't want to and it would always feel like its broke to me lol.
Anyways... Fitting to 365/6 days wasn't a major concern for many. If I remember right most calenders have between 250 and 360 days per year with only as we got more towards modern times did we care, and only because of christianity at first and the for astronomy second. You'd think that people who needed to remember when to farm would care, but it seems they really didn't and a more cruel leadership would probably tend towards shorter years anyways to tax more ^.^ I'd think more agrarian and nomadic people would count a general number of moons for their calendars while a more urban society would count in standardized solar cycle without getting too far from a lunar cycle... As long as you have those roughly aligned the 365 day per year thing is largely pointless and confusing. Further, your society is anti astronomical observation so you might want to not have them in a place where they ask "hey why is the year x days long" or "why do we have these magical days here when we're trying to make sure we're planting crops when we need to" I only can get away with it in my world because it's dragons who are magical and don't need to farm and obsessive compulsive about keeping working on certain numbers. So even though it can be done, I don't recommend it in a realistic setting. I don't even think there is a precedence for it in real calendars but I don't know for sure.
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Anyway working on next map which is a zoomed in area of Valbeyon and the surrounding regions...
Anyone have any suggestions for maximum scale? I currently have it at 1km:1px with 3000x3000px... I can handle 20000x10000px but it starts getting harder to work with at that scale...
Last edited by Durakken; 11-09-2015 at 07:37 AM.
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