Website finances and our options

[TK.]

So, if no one can actually concede decent time to keep our advertising and relations going, I could check into unloading part of my current workload and manage some time to produce this content even if not as often as I'd like...I assume I could manage a couple days interval of checking in for updates/content, which would be better than not at all.

That said, what I believe our main problem is: We are not being seen.

Not even for the people that WANT to see the Guild.

To give an idea, I check the Cartographer's Guild daily with the laptop I'm currently in (and thus my Google search engine algorithm is already tweaked to include results relevant to it) and still, I couldn't get a first page match for the Guild with all these indexes:

Search Example2.jpgSearch Example1.jpgSearch Example3.jpgSearch Example4.jpg


Keep in mind the images that appear in Google (from tuts and maps from the Cartographer's Guild) only appear there because I did open them early on before I saw this thread, so they wouldn't even be there for a new fresh user.

That means that being a niche of a niche our flow of viewers already is quite low and not increasing our organic appearance on what supposedly is relevant to us, we're dead in the water on the ol' big internet.


That said, my proposal to change this status is:

- Improve our organic SEO

---- Keywords - We need to be seen close or along with stuff that pertains to us, even if not directly related at first thought. That starts with correlating the Cartographer's Guild to keywords like "maps"; "cartography"; "fantasy"; "geography"; but goes beyond "RPG"; "epic worlds"; "world-buidling" and luckily we'll reach a point where we can even get good positions for stuff like "digital art"; "painting"; "ink"...

To do this, we need to go to the basics (which can do wonders, for everyone)

Dunno if you already use it into our code (and Google block most of the "good" stuff these days as black-hating >.>) but we need more appearance of relevant keywords, in content here in the guild generated on a continued rate and also around the internet.
The more Cartographer's Guild appears along maps, fantasy, map-making, map tutorials, RPG maps, creating maps, and such in posts around the internet, more organic indexes are generated and thus we rise up on searches.

---- Cross-referencing and Backlinking - The Cartographer's Guild link needs to appear more on other relevant websites and thus getting us flow back from them. We need to be on RPG forums, Gaming forums, Fantasy Forums, on people facebooks, profiles, Deviantart, Blogs...and for that to happen we need not only our members to put the Guild where they can (their profiles when doable, remember to include the link into posts, sometimes advertise it to friends or a community they have a relation with...) but also to actively generate that content (which brings us back to the need of someone to do this).

---- Continual consistent human content - Stuff for people to read, learn, absorb, criticize. Could be as simple as allowing a broader audience to check the Cartographer's Choice... or commented tutorials...or specific techniques shared by our members... highlighting some maps...


- These previous steps are preparations for the real revenue increases (even though adds would gain from those):

---- Monthly Magazine/Bundle - We already have an incredible source of awesome maps in the form of the Mapping Challenges and I believe we could use that as a constant income of content to be turned into revenue. What if we bundled the Challenge maps or at least the top 3 or so, with some added discussion or interview of the authors about the map, techniques used or problems involved during the making process and sold that for an approachable value (think $3-$5 usd) and allowed the use of those maps for personal purposes? Or if authors are ok with going further we could even allow those maps free of use, keeping authoring rights?

That way the authors would have more material of their own around the internet promoting their art meanwhile the guild has a renewable source for income. If we made these appear on enough medias (Here, partner sites, FB, Twitter, Insta...) we might get good rates here.

---- Coaching/Tutoring - Produce a model between the Guild and its members, where we could elect "Guild Certified Tutors" of sorts. Anyone could then, hire these GCT guys for some ammount/monthly and this person would get direct attention/teaching from its GCT. We would need to establish rules and guidelines for it to work and also to guarantee that the GCT is providing proper tutelage and the student is doing its part.
Not sure how feasible this would be, but it would be an awesome system if competent artists would be interested for such system.

---- Cartographer's Choice - What if the Guild could advertise and monetize the CC choice? We could establish a set price for it and every Choice the guild would advertise it on its own/partner channels, adding the possibility of purchasing the art piece to be used by its buyers, authoring rights preserved. This deal would then be split 50/50 between author and Guild.

---- Updated Tutorials - We could update and give a better layout for tutorials and monetize them. Specially GIMP that changed quite a lot sometimes get new users a bit off and even some Photoshop steps on some Tuts are not quite direct, so we could do a better documentation and formatting and provide them more readily available in more resources, as a Cartographer's Guild Product with authoring by their respective creators.

---- Donations - I believe we can still rely on them. Just need to make it clearer to see and find, imo. Not sure how feasible a revamp of the front page would be, but maybe something that better emphasizes the Donate and WHY do we need it.

---- A Continual Series of Maps - Create some sort of "Cartographer's Guild XYZ Maps of the Month", where XYZ could be specific, relevant, practical maps...like squared or hexed battle maps...dungeon maps...random locations maps... these bundles could then be sold for X amount. Not sure how much interest authors would have to contribute to this pool of maps on month basis, tough.


These are just some quick ideas...

I also would like to add that many, if not all, of my suggestions go directly into authors comissions and time/reward relation and I clearly understand I'm proposing something that directly impacts the craft (and thus income) of many of you, if not on a large scale, at least in part.
That though, I believe is still a good deal for authors since their work would be more seen around, work which is normally left here in the Guild without much use. I assume from a quick glance that could be a good trade-off for both the Cartographer's Guild and the Artists.

What you think?

[ChickPea]

T.K., I think you bring up an interesting point about SEO. After seeing your images, I did a search for 'fantasy maps' and was a little shocked to see the site languishing third from the bottom. OK, still on the front page, but at the wrong end. I'd have expected us to be the second or third link at the top. One possible simple improvement would be to encourage people to use tags on their threads. A few do, but most don't.

Also, I'm not on Facebook but I do use Twitter. When there was downtime yesterday, there was a pop-up saying to check FB or Twitter for updates, and I was like "wait, the Guild's on Twitter?" But there have been no updates since 2012. I accept the admins may not have time for the likes of Twitter any more, but is there no-one who could take it over? Jeez, I'd do it. An active social media presence helps to boost the site's profile, and can bring in new users from different channels.

All the stuff about SEO is good and valid, but I also feel that relying on ad revenue isn't the way to build a solid financial footing for the site. Unless you can bring in ads directly tailored to the users of this site (not just Ad Words) my feeling is that ad revenue is only going to shrink further. Every site that relies on ads is facing this problem.

I think you bring up some interesting points with your other ideas, though I'd have to leave that to the serious artists of the site to choose. I'm not comfortable in volunteering other people's time and work (as you allude to in your comment too).

[Chick]

I think that ads are always going to be insufficient revenue generation, simply because the audience here is too small. You need a website with traffic of a million a day to generate significant money from ads.

However, just a post saying "it's time to donate" generated about 1/3 of the annual amount originally listed in the donate line, so it appears to me that donations from members who make money here could be adequate to pay for the server. I'm sure most people in that category will want to be sure this site doesn't go away.

As for other moneymaking endeavors such as books, online sales of rpg maps, calendars, etc, will require a lot of work to set up, prepare, and market -- every year.

I was the artist for the Fractal Universe Calendar for a few years (http://www.fractaluniverse.artsociet...ar_Images_2011) and that was done by a large calendar company so all I had to do was provide the images. But it was still a lot of work to create the images, post 30 images for the editor to choose from, then render them in the format needed for publication, upload them to the company website, and sit back and wait for 10 months to get a royalty check which was barely worth the trouble.

Payback from projects such as these is fairly small relative to the work involved, and the lag time between work and payoff is high. The market for a Fantasy Map Calendar would not be large enough to interest a calendar company, so all marketing would have to be done directly, through places like ebay/amazon and the online print on demand calendar websites, making it compete with zillions of cat, dog, flower, landscape, other fantasy art, and wildlife calendars. I cannot imagine selling enough to pay for this website.

So now that I seem to be dumping on all those type of good ideas, let me throw out some positives.

The idea of managing the tags and search engine positioning is excellent. I teach bridge online when I'm not messing with maps, and I created a website for that (http://www.onlinebridgelessons.com/). I spent about two days researching how to do this, and put in tags that had me at number two on the google list almost immediately. I just did a search and today I'm halfway down the first page.

I found CG because I searched for something like "fantasy maps" and found lots, and a few of them happened to be on CG. I did not find CG directly that way, I only found it because some of the maps attracted me to look further.

So that's my take on some of the ideas that are being discussed -- donations are still the best way for reliable support, and search engine positioning is the most helpful way to bring new members and clients for professional members who are most likely to contribute.

[J.Edward]

You can find the Guild all over the place. Even on Pinterest. Everytime something new comes on here it is almost immediately pinned over there.
It could stand to have some more exposure on the search engines I'm sure.
More people could use tags with their maps. Cross posting. A number of people on here have DA accounts but most do not seem to post their CG user link or put a link back to a finished map thread or a wip thread. I try to do that. It has lead people to join here before. Basic site evangelism.

I'm sure if Robbie posted a few times a year 'Hey, we need some donations for this period' it would probably suffice. But I understand not wanting to have to do the fundraiser sort of thing.
Some of what Chick said is true. Profits from a product may seem marginal in the short term.
Product growth and identity does take time and promotion. I think some people here want the feeling of inclusion and just would like to help in a more active way.
Doing some products could help with that and give people more of a sense of helping out. And it's always nice to see that product.
I've done POD for a few years now. Revenue is not particularly high there but that is greatly a factor of promotion and product demand.
Also, I'm one guy trying to sell something for personal gain - I can't say they are donating to a good cause like we could if the products were for keeping the guild afloat.
That can go a long way I think.

When I suggested certain things I was fully aware of the time involved and was planning to dedicate my own time. If others would want to do the same then I don't really see the time involved as an issue. A separate sub forum for working on Guild products might be a nice thing so long as those admitted were active and productive in that.

To ChickPea's point - yeah, not everyone games so product that appeals elsewhere would be good. A guild tee or coffee mug would be cool.
I would be happy to work on that stuff. As I've done it for a few years, I already know what needs to be done.

[Chick]

OK, since I'm familiar with the calendar business, I hereby volunteer to create and find a place to market a Fantasy Worlds calendar, for the benefit of CG.

I will take offers from everyone of a map to which they hold the copyright and are willing to license it for no fee to this purpose.

Each map will have to be dimensioned to my specifications (as soon as I figure out what they are), in full color, with full labels and other requirements as I figure them out (for example, I expect to want no borders, but will get that kind of stuff posted asap).

I'm not sure how fast this process will be, so trying to get a 2016 calendar ready might not be feasible, but we'll see. It will probably be a 2017 calendar to go on sale about August of 2016, that is the usual timing for calendars.

I'll want Robbie to stamp approval on this endeavor and two more people to help edit and choose the images from the submissions.

If Robbie says ok, then I'll ask for a private forum thread to work in, with the selected volunteers. The process will be to take submissions up to a certain date, then we will select the 13 images (12 months plus cover), get them licensed, sized, and submitted to a calendar-maker.

After that, it will be up to everyone here to post the heck out of the purchase link to everyone and everywhere that might buy such a calendar.

How does that sound?

[Meshon]

I am one of those who has donated a few times, but I have no idea when exactly. So I just need a little reminder. I've often wondered if the "Gracious Donor" tags ever reset, it would be awesome if I were to get a CG message that said "Hey, your little green tag is about to go black! Donate now and keep it!"

Also, until reading this thread I hadn't even considered linking here from deviantart. It's not like my page gets a lot of views, but it's a good habit to get into I think, especially if there's a WIP thread here. I just updated the most recent Prepared! map I did with this:

This map was Guided by the Cartographers Guild. The feedback from the amazing community there made this map better. See the production process here:

followed by a link to the WIP thread.

I was imagining something like the "Powered by Wordpress" or "Made on a Mac" things I see all over the place. Some good brainstorming is going on here. I'll keep watching and if there's something I can do to help, I will.

cheers,
Meshon

[Ilanthar]

I just wanted to say that concerning free contributions, I would happily give any of my maps posted here at the guild to support any project.
I can do changes if needed (remember I'm a slow cartographer though) and authorize a guilder to do changes. I would just asked to be informed in this last case.

[J.Edward]

I can do changes if needed (remember I'm a slow cartographer though) and authorize a guilder to do changes.

Ilanthar, you are faster than you think.

[Diamond]

I really like the calendar idea and I'd be willing to donate art to it. I might even create something brand new for it.

Heh. That could be next year's Annual Challenge right there - a themed map, and the winner could be on the cover of the 2017 calendar, or a centerfold or something.

[Meshon]

the winner could be on the cover of the 2017 calendar, or a centerfold or something.

Just to be clear, you're talking about the winner's map, right? Or is this a different kind of calendar than I thought it was?

Hmmm… I wonder… no. Anyway.

I'm sure there's lots of others here too, but I used to work in an office designing printish things with software. I haven't done it professionally since I started grad school, but I still dabble from time to time. I'm saying I could help with layout and design if there's a book project. Maybe calendar too.

cheers,
Meshon