Twin River City [WIP]

[MistyBeee]

Oh, well, you're welcome
I was writing to a client just a few minutes ago for who I'm working on a map of Lake Winnebago (Bees's relating her life...) and I finally put my finger on something that I have in mind since I saw your map this morning. Your map with those colors reminds me this wood map I found when I was looking for reference for Lake Winnebago : burned lines, strong shadows made by the 'real' 3D relief. Something authentic, almost like a 3D model. So, great job, once again ^^

[XCali]

Oh, well, you're welcome
I was writing to a client just a few minutes ago for who I'm working on a map of Lake Winnebago (Bees's relating her life...) and I finally put my finger on something that I have in mind since I saw your map this morning. Your map with those colors reminds me this wood map I found when I was looking for reference for Lake Winnebago : burned lines, strong shadows made by the 'real' 3D relief. Something authentic, almost like a 3D model. So, great job, once again ^^

Nice reference map! Where did you find that one?

Thank you once again.
I was watching a person draw really cool concept art and some things he pointed to got me on the trail to try playing with shaded relief to make stuff pop. It actually surprised me quite a bit when it actually worked for me! Hehehe.

Anyway, I still have a lot to learn, but this is a fun way to play with a top down map.

Can I ask you something? How did you get into cartography? And how long have you been making maps for? You really have an amazing talent for it. It's absolutely inspiring.

[MistyBeee]

Nice reference map! Where did you find that one?

Quite easily, in fact : just searching "lake Winnebago map" in Google images the first time I was looking for references about this specific project ^^

Thank you once again.
I was watching a person draw really cool concept art and some things he pointed to got me on the trail to try playing with shaded relief to make stuff pop. It actually surprised me quite a bit when it actually worked for me! Hehehe.
Anyway, I still have a lot to learn, but this is a fun way to play with a top down map.
Can I ask you something? How did you get into cartography? And how long have you been making maps for? You really have an amazing talent for it. It's absolutely inspiring.

Oooh... you made me blush once again
'must say I don't see myself as talented or creative, I just... fake it ? but doing my best ^^'
Hmm... As many others, there is a world building project I started in 2000 or 2001 and which needed maps. My first one was already on Photoshop, but mostly generated, with tons of awful automatic effects... I just had a mouse, and absolutely 0 skills or interest for drawing. I can't count how many versions of this map I drew, mostly on Photoshop, some on paper (you can see some of them here if you're interested, it will give you an idea of the way ^^). The last really detailed map I drew for my own world is from 2011, I think. After it, except a few concept maps, I mostly tryed my hand on regular digital painting illustrations : plants, objects, portraits, a few landscapes (I'm bad for landscapes ^^), but as I was thinking to change a very boring job, a friend who followed the whole world building suggested I could try to take commissions for maps, as mine were quite successful on our small community. My first commission was in early 2016. As far as I remember, I think it was the first time I drew a map out of my own fantasy world (if I omit a map of Austria when I was 6 years old ^^), and I sometimes have the feeling I progressed more in 2 years of commissions than in 16 years in my own world ^^'.

[XCali]

Oooh... you made me blush once again
'must say I don't see myself as talented or creative, I just... fake it ? but doing my best ^^'
Hmm... As many others, there is a world building project I started in 2000 or 2001 and which needed maps. My first one was already on Photoshop, but mostly generated, with tons of awful automatic effects... I just had a mouse, and absolutely 0 skills or interest for drawing. I can't count how many versions of this map I drew, mostly on Photoshop, some on paper (you can see some of them here if you're interested, it will give you an idea of the way ^^). The last really detailed map I drew for my own world is from 2011, I think. After it, except a few concept maps, I mostly tryed my hand on regular digital painting illustrations : plants, objects, portraits, a few landscapes (I'm bad for landscapes ^^), but as I was thinking to change a very boring job, a friend who followed the whole world building suggested I could try to take commissions for maps, as mine were quite successful on our small community. My first commission was in early 2016. As far as I remember, I think it was the first time I drew a map out of my own fantasy world (if I omit a map of Austria when I was 6 years old ^^), and I sometimes have the feeling I progressed more in 2 years of commissions than in 16 years in my own world ^^'.

Ha! Don't be so modest. You do have a great talent.

EDIT: Just to make that clear, looking at your Tamriel and Middle Earth maps, it makes me stare in awe at the screen. Truly magnificent.


Hmm, the progress of the different versions of that map is quite interesting. I most the enjoy the 2005 version and the 2010 version. The 2005 version invokes a sense of there is stories there with the big trees popping out of the map. I like it. The 2010 version on the other hand version has such elegant touch to it. Definitely nice to see how you progressed on a single map.

My first map was me trying to get past my 0 drawing ability and using tracing paper to get the lines for mountains and cliffs. But, about two years ago, I really had to get a map ready for my novel's world and so I found Inkarnate and boom created a few maps about regions and continents in my world. Though, I always wanted to add MORE mystery and fantasy to those maps, yet inkarnate only allowed 10 custom objects over all your maps at that time. ... That frustrated me to no end. I had created a frankenstein map using custom objects, but, I could only do so much with that program. That is when I discovered GIMP. Now, that enabled me to create an upgraded version of my frankenstein maps. In all seriousness, it gave waaaay more freedom to add stuff that wasn't normally seen on maps. That is what I wanted.
Anyway, before I knew I started to really love creating maps and then I started to finally learn to draw stuff other than stick figures and now I love drawing maps and assets for them. Still, a ways to go. But, as you know it can be incredibly satisfying.

Do you ever draw brushes to help on your journey?
(Btw, thank you for taking the time to chat a bit. It is really nice. )

---
If you are interested.
Frankesteinion map version 2.0 Huehuehue!!!!! Yera's Crossing.
First map I did on the guild. Nessa'Mor
Very first commission map. Ice Dragon lair.

[MistyBeee]

Do you ever draw brushes to help on your journey?
(Btw, thank you for taking the time to chat a bit. It is really nice. )
---
If you are interested.
Frankesteinion map version 2.0 Huehuehue!!!!! Yera's Crossing.
First map I did on the guild. Nessa'Mor
Very first commission map. Ice Dragon lair.

I see something in common with your Frankesteinion map and my first one, thus yours is definitely better ! Sounds we both made a long way already, but it's never the end and that's the best, isn't it ?

Actually I really don't use many brushes, and I tend to use less and less with time. All my lineart is made exclusively with the most basic round brush with pen pressure (same one, a little flattened for calligraphy), I have 2 more I use for painting (a round one with opacity pressure and a chalk one for blending), and a very few (maybe 4 ?) I made myself or found somewhere for painting parchment textures or add grungy splatters on the edges. That's all. It's probably years now since I created my last brush, probably !

And... you're more than welcome

[XCali]

I see something in common with your Frankesteinion map and my first one, thus yours is definitely better ! Sounds we both made a long way already, but it's never the end and that's the best, isn't it ?

Actually I really don't use many brushes, and I tend to use less and less with time. All my lineart is made exclusively with the most basic round brush with pen pressure (same one, a little flattened for calligraphy), I have 2 more I use for painting (a round one with opacity pressure and a chalk one for blending), and a very few (maybe 4 ?) I made myself or found somewhere for painting parchment textures or add grungy splatters on the edges. That's all. It's probably years now since I created my last brush, probably !

And... you're more than welcome

Hehehe, yeah that is true. Fantasy cartography is quite a journey that keeps going.
Well, I think you are lucky to have already found a drawing tablet for the more precise lineart(I remember you commenting about a wacom>?). I am yet to save up for one, my mouse is way too imprecise sadly. I can't wait!!
I do like drawing certain maps by pencil or pen. But certain things I really and I mean really do not like drawing a thousand of, trees being one of them. So, I do create tree brushes quite often and unique stuff. Although I do get what you are saying.

Can I ask one more question, it is actually one I really wish I could put my finger on. Like with continent maps, how do you structure your layers? And what modes do you tend to use to get your coloring consistent. I have had mixed success in that regard.
Like example:
Top=Lineart layer (mulitply? Normal?)
Layer= This layer(that mode)
...
...
Bottom layer(that mode)

I would really appreciate it a great deal if you can point me in a good direction regarding that.

Have a lovely day!

[XCali]

Hey! All you nice people!

Today's update is me experimenting again. I drew quite a few trees by pen and then created an animated brush to fill in the map. I actually liked the green I used as an example earlier, so the trees got that color. Still, it is an experimental color. So, I would like hear your feedback on it.

I also added a layer on Linear Light mode and threw that same green in and got the effect you see around the trees. (I did Gaussian blur that layer.)

Anyway, I wanted to see what you all think of the addition of the trees.

### Latest WIP ###
Thunder Rock Tree Experiment.jpeg

[Adfor]

I like the feel of the green you used for the palm trees, gives it even more of a desert feel. This one has been truly fun to watch unfold, Cali, great work, as always!

[MistyBeee]

Hehehe, yeah that is true. Fantasy cartography is quite a journey that keeps going.
Well, I think you are lucky to have already found a drawing tablet for the more precise lineart(I remember you commenting about a wacom>?). I am yet to save up for one, my mouse is way too imprecise sadly. I can't wait!!
I do like drawing certain maps by pencil or pen. But certain things I really and I mean really do not like drawing a thousand of, trees being one of them. So, I do create tree brushes quite often and unique stuff. Although I do get what you are saying.

I started with a Wacom Intuos 2 probably in... 2003 or 2004 ? To be absolutely, totally honest with you, I never was able to overcome totally the hand/brain dissociation : every drawing was a pain, and not that much better than what I did with my mouse before. If you drew this map with just a mouse, so let me tell you my complete admiration o_o
In 2009 I had still the same problem with my non-connecting brain for the tablet, but the best husband ever came to rescue and made the best Christmas gift ever : a Wacom Cintiq. It was a big bet, because a Wacom Cintiq is a lot of money, but it was magical and solved instantanely my problem. In just a few weeks I made more progress than in one year with my old Intuos. But I insist on the fact that it's just me : most of people don't have trouble with that dissociation, so don't be afraid ^^'. As you saw my progress on the picture earlier today, you saw the 2009-2010 enhancement and understand what I mean
For trees... I don't use brush for them since as you may know Photoshop will make them overlapped. For some styles where I can draw trees with an opaque color/background (so mostly black/white maps, but I think I never posted this specific style on the map yet) I use the clone stamp tool as a time saver, but I don't like to replicate elements, so it's something I use less and less now... So... I draw them individually almost all the time now, as you can see on Middle Earth, Tamriel and my other maps. As I always say : a forest day is a good day for an audiobook (A Jules Verne for Middle Earth, and Robin Hobb for Tamriel, I think ? ^^).

Can I ask one more question, it is actually one I really wish I could put my finger on. Like with continent maps, how do you structure your layers? And what modes do you tend to use to get your coloring consistent. I have had mixed success in that regard.
Like example:
Top=Lineart layer (mulitply? Normal?)
Layer= This layer(that mode)
...
...
Bottom layer(that mode)

I would really appreciate it a great deal if you can point me in a good direction regarding that.

Have a lovely day!

Well... Every project is different, but let's see if I can help. Just remember there is no "perfect method" : the perfect method is the one that works for you

Layers organisation (to read from the bottom, as you know !) :

• Late edits :
  
  • Texture effects (splatters, dirty edges, etc. ; low opacity)
  • Color ajustment (not always required, but can be great for general harmonization ; always subtle)
  • Last details (normal opacity 100% : very precise edits and color touches, rare super strong specular lights, and sometimes snow, because it's better when over linework ; sometimes this layer is just 3 white dots only !)
• Ornaments folder (with roughly same organisation than Map folder : labels > linework > shadow* > color*) :
  
  • Title folder
  • Border folder
• Map folder + mask for areas covered by ornaments
  
  • Labels folder (including calligraphy if needed, and a background layer for the label outlines)
  • Line work folder ; I tend to use many layers for start and merge them before color. When several layers (usually each with a mask : I'm an extremist of non-destructive methods (probably from my years as webdesigner) and it's useful when a client asks to move an illustration at the last moment ^^) :
    
    • Illustrations
    • Forests
    • Grasslands/deserts/swamps
    • Mountains
    • Rivers
  • Color, light & Shadow folder :
    
    • Light
    • Shadow*
    • Color*
    • Often a low opacity light ajustment layer to make the landmass slightly lighter than sea
  • Water folder + mask for landmasses
    
    • Compass & rhumb lines
    • Sea color* (low opacity and color mode "color")
• Background layer

* are layers for which I sometimes use a color mode.
To be honest, my style is pretty simple and I use as few effects as I can : no color modes on folders, and even rarely on layers. The only elements for which I use color modes areshadow and Color layers, but even there it's not systematic (more often I do the color with a normal mode, just playing with a low opacity brush, or pen pressure on opacity). If needed, multiply, overlay and linear light are probably those I use the most ; however it depends on the background, ambiancy, etc... No magical recipe, just try-fail-retry. I noted that almost everytime I use a color mode, I lower the layer opacity for a more subtle effect ^^).



For Guild mods : don't hesitate to tell me if I should talk about this in private, or create a new thread instead of spamming this one, because I'm really not accustomed with forum usages in this sort of things, so sorry if I'm doing something wrong !

[XCali]

If you drew this map with just a mouse, so let me tell you my complete admiration o_o

Oh no! I drew this with a pen and paper and a trusty magnifying glass.
Though I mouse drew all my mountains for my Sambria WIP(Which took a looong time) this one I wanted the pen and paper feel. At least for all the line art.

I'm on my phone at the moment so replying is a bit more tricky. I'll reply in depth to your bigger post in the morning. Thanks for taking the time! Really.
(Btw, just a quick note, the layer modes(eg. Multiply. I couldn't figure it out just now. But I'm sure I'll probably get it with a fresh brain tomorrow. )
Good night!