How to choose a tool for mapping?

[Azélor]

I think the sheer size and complexity (infrastructures) of futuristic cities is the main reason why there aren't that many maps.

Think about it. A 10 000 people city is quite big for a classic medieval fantasy setting but that's about 1000 building (give or take).
For a modern of futuristic setting, 10 000 people just a common town/outpost.
Imagine you wanted to map a modern city like Paris or New York, we're talking about millions of people, thousand and thousand of buildings...
At this point most people would rather have an abstract representation of the city than individual buildings.

You could still map only portion of the city if that counts.

[nichendrix]

I think the sheer size and complexity (infrastructures) of futuristic cities is the main reason why there aren't that many maps.

Think about it. A 10 000 people city is quite big for a classic medieval fantasy setting but that's about 1000 building (give or take).
For a modern of futuristic setting, 10 000 people just a common town/outpost.
Imagine you wanted to map a modern city like Paris or New York, we're talking about millions of people, thousand and thousand of buildings...
At this point most people would rather have an abstract representation of the city than individual buildings.

You could still map only portion of the city if that counts.

If you're mapping a place with high population density you're right. But most sci-fi stuff don't usually happens in this kind of place.

If you look at Star Trek, Star Wars and so on, the average population of most planets is on the range from a few hundred thousand to a few million inhabitants on average for the whole planet, most planet capitals don't go over 10,000-100,000 inhabitants.

For example in Star Wars galaxy, most planets' populations would fall between Tatooine (Population:80,000) in the backwater nearly untamed frontier planet and Naboo (Population: 4.5 billion) the average affluent higher population density planet.

Only about 5% of the galaxy's planets have with population of over 1 billion inhabitants with most planets' population ranging between 2 million to 200 million inhabitants. In this kind of low population density environment each planet would have only handful of cities with population over 100,000 inhabitants.

Certainly in SW Galaxy there are a few off the charts planets like Coruscant with its trillions of inhabitants and the whole surface covered with skyscrapers thousands of stories high that are actually so tall that it's star's light never touches its surface, but they are the exception among the exceptions.

Most RPG adventures would take place on these ultra densely populated places, so mapping them isn't really an issue. And in the few occasions where mapping this kind of place is necessary, you would just map the area of interest, not the whole planet.

Enviado de meu Moto G (5) Plus usando o Tapatalk

[johnvanvliet]

for whole planets you can also use Blender ,as i do.

Screenshot_20190214_002238.png

a very small example ( 2048x1024 px )
texture and HeightMap
EarthLike2.Tex.png 2k.height.png


and Blender is opensource so it is FREE

[nichendrix]

for whole planets you can also use Blender ,as i do.

Screenshot_20190214_002238.png

a very small example ( 2048x1024 px )
texture and HeightMap
EarthLike2.Tex.png 2k.height.png


and Blender is opensource so it is FREE

I tend to think that using Blender, 3DS Max or Maya to make RPG maps that would be used once or twice on campaign is kind of using a bazooka to kill a fly. In the end I ended up buying FM8 and AstroSynthesis 3, which could generate the same kind of output with just a few clicks, which is handy, since entire world maps would be just the texture of surface with markers for a few dozen locations of interest, at least for RPG purpose.

Enviado de meu Moto G (5) Plus usando o Tapatalk

[Mark Oliva]

When I saw your samples farther above, my first reaction was that I probably could do most of that in FM8 and maybe in CC3+ too, without Cosmographer. With CC3+, I'm not quite certain (I haven't been into the necessary mapping areas of CC3+), but with FM8, no problem, providing the following free add-ins have been installed:

CSUAC
Dundjinni Archives
Vintyri Cartographoic Collection

The sample map below uses objects from all three add-ins.

Seeing that you're looking at making your first shot with FM8 + AS, the CC3+ issue isn't pressing at the moment.

I spent about half an hour this morning seeing what the possibilities are, because I've never tried to make the kind of map you showed us before.

I started with the map of the Mos-Eisley-type settlement, duplicating the basic terrain and road layout. I didn't like the blandness of the original, so I chose more colorful sand textures. But that's not necessary:

Sci-Fi Sample.jpg

Anyone who wants to open this map in FM8 to see how things were made can download the original file here:

https://www.vintyri.org/downloads/sample_sci_fi.zip

After that, I tried to duplicate some elements of the "Mos Eisley" map on the left hand side of the test map. The original was hand-drawn and somewhat irregular in shape, so my duplicate also is a bit irregular. If this was a serious map rather than a test map, I would not have left things that way. In the rest of the map, I tried to create things in somewhat of the style used in other samples that you showed.

Please understand that this is a quick-and-dirty test to determine what can be done with FM8 (and probably also with CC3+) rather than a demonstration of what FM8 can do. If I had been making a serious map, things would have looked much better. There would be much more detail, special effects would be applied, etc. Shadowing is the only special effect in this map.

Also ... and maybe this is a bit of advice too ... I would not make new buildings on the spot in the map but rather make them in a separate FM8 session, memorize them as symbols and then take them from the symbol catalog into the map. That would take a minute's more time than making the buildings directly in the map, and gives you the advantage of being able to use the building symbol in other maps.

A further advantage: If you switch later to CC3+, you can import all of the homemade symbols that you created with FM8 directly into CC3+.

How does one do that?

When one starts with FM8, I strongly urge new users to work their way through the two (free) FM8 PDF manuals. The first or basic manual concentrates upon vector topics. The second manual then goes on to raster (bitmap) cartography. However, the lessons learned in the first tutorial are absolutely necessary to understand the second, advanced manual.

Plan on spending about a week in your free time working your way through the two manuals. Once you've done that, you'll be an FM8 master mapper. The program has a mild and easy learning curve.

You can download the first, basic manual here:

https://www.nbos.com/nox/index.php?action=1001&id=125

The second, advanced raster mapping manual is here:

https://www.vintyri.org/downloads/pdftu01.zip

Note that new versions of both manuals will be released for the pending 64-bit version of FM9.

[nichendrix]

When I saw your samples farther above, my first reaction was that I probably could do most of that in FM8 and maybe in CC3+ too, without Cosmographer. With CC3+, I'm not quite certain (I haven't been into the necessary mapping areas of CC3+), but with FM8, no problem, providing the following free add-ins have been installed:

CSUAC
Dundjinni Archives
Vintyri Cartographoic Collection

The sample map below uses objects from all three add-ins.

I've downloaded all of these add-ins just before buying FM8+AS and installed them after I've got the programs installed, so using them should not be an issue. One thing I've noticed is that when looking into the symbols library in FM8, there's no way to know the name of the symbol, and this can sometimes be confusing if you don't know what the symbol represents.

Seeing that you're looking at making your first shot with FM8 + AS, the CC3+ issue isn't pressing at the moment.

I spent about half an hour this morning seeing what the possibilities are, because I've never tried to make the kind of map you showed us before.

I started with the map of the Mos-Eisley-type settlement, duplicating the basic terrain and road layout. I didn't like the blandness of the original, so I chose more colorful sand textures. But that's not necessary:

Sci-Fi Sample.jpg

Anyone who wants to open this map in FM8 to see how things were made can download the original file here:

https://www.vintyri.org/downloads/sample_sci_fi.zip

After that, I tried to duplicate some elements of the "Mos Eisley" map on the left hand side of the test map. The original was hand-drawn and somewhat irregular in shape, so my duplicate also is a bit irregular. If this was a serious map rather than a test map, I would not have left things that way. In the rest of the map, I tried to create things in somewhat of the style used in other samples that you showed.

Please understand that this is a quick-and-dirty test to determine what can be done with FM8 (and probably also with CC3+) rather than a demonstration of what FM8 can do. If I had been making a serious map, things would have looked much better. There would be much more detail, special effects would be applied, etc. Shadowing is the only special effect in this map.

I've got the idea, this weekend I'll give it a try and make some attempts on map making in FM8, probably I'll try to make a starship deckplan first.
CC3+ and MapForge are my escape route if things don't work out with FM8+AS3

Also ... and maybe this is a bit of advice too ... I would not make new buildings on the spot in the map but rather make them in a separate FM8 session, memorize them as symbols and then take them from the symbol catalog into the map. That would take a minute's more time than making the buildings directly in the map, and gives you the advantage of being able to use the building symbol in other maps.

It is just like AutoCAD, you make a symbol on a file, transform and save it as block, then you either use the symbol from a directory or add it to your block library in order to pick it directly from the menu.

Plan on spending about a week in your free time working your way through the two manuals. Once you've done that, you'll be an FM8 master mapper. The program has a mild and easy learning curve.

You can download the first, basic manual here:

https://www.nbos.com/nox/index.php?action=1001&id=125

The second, advanced raster mapping manual is here:

https://www.vintyri.org/downloads/pdftu01.zip

Note that new versions of both manuals will be released for the pending 64-bit version of FM9.

I've already went through most of the first manual. In the weekend I'll pick the second manual and give it a try.

I hope that anyone that bought FM8 this year get either a free upgrade to FM9 or at least a very good discount on the upgrade's price. Also I really hope it updates abd expands its sci-fi symbols library, but this bit last nit is probably just wishful thinking. I also hope that when they release AS4, they make some good tutorial for beginners, since we have only the program's manual and a sketch of tutorial for advanced users, nothing for the novice.

By the way, thanks for your answers, you and the other folks here were very kind in sharing your thoughts on the problem I was facing.

[Mark Oliva]

One thing I've noticed is that when looking into the symbols library in FM8, there's no way to know the name of the symbol, and this can sometimes be confusing if you don't know what the symbol represents.

Unfortunately, you're right. However, I understand that this will be fixed in FM9. What I do ... and it is a nuisance but helps and speeds things up ... is open the symbols folder in the Windows Explorer, where I can see both the symbol names and an enlarged view of the symbols. But it is cumbersome. Once you have a symbol on the map, you can click it with the right mouse key, and that will show the path and file name.

I really hope it updates abd expands its sci-fi symbols library, but this bit last nit is probably just wishful thinking. I also hope that when they release AS4, they make some good tutorial for beginners, since we have only the program's manual and a sketch of tutorial for advanced users, nothing for the novice.

It would be good if you went on to the NBOS forum for FM8 and make these suggestions. Ed Diana at NBOS is a very responsive person who places a lot of value on customer thinking:

https://www.nbos.com

or send him an E-Mail at:

support2@nbos.com

[Naima]

What is FM8?

[Mark Oliva]

Fractal Mapper 8 from NBOS Software:

http://www.nbos.com

[heruca]

There's a very nice sci-fi city map preview posted here. I'd love to see loads more like this, and for some artist to create stampable images to create these sorts of maps.