4E Dungeons & Dragons - Verdict?

[Gandwarf]

You D&D guys should just all go play Descent. I love being the GM/evil overlord

[Midgardsormr]

Thanks to both Greason Wolf and GamerPrinter, who both illustrated that I am, indeed, speaking English. I've said all I mean to say on this subject for the time being.

[Talroth]

I've played 4th edition many times with a few different groups. Both in person with one group, and online with a few others.

My personal issue with it is that all characters tend to be TOO useful in all situations. When playing a character if feels far too easy to pull one character out and replace him with a completely random one. I don't have to think too hard about what classes other players have, I don't have to worry about finding ways to play to their strengths and weaknesses.

In some ways this is a good thing, but from a few years of playing D&D 3.5 I've found the most memorable events from them stemmed from someone being very ill suited to something and then being at the mercy of other player's to make up for the character's short falls. Sure this can be purely RP based, but I find it adds to the RP to force someone to have flaws and issues that another player isn't going to have.

Things are over balanced throughout the game. I think from the RP view varied power curves are a good thing. A warrior having to haul a weak wizard though the first few character levels then has some interesting issues to deal with as that wizard he laughed at and tormented for being so useless quickly builds up to be far more powerful and important than he can ever hope to be.

[NymTevlyn]

The even/odd universal rule works regardless of edition, game, or anything.

[EldritchNumen]

Using the even/odd rule does not make someone a good GM. As has been said above, the playing style of a particular group is what matters. Some groups might like everything to be decided by dice roll, even in absurd circumstances in which a 50-50 chance lacks conformity with reality (e.g. applying such a coarse probability to, for example, a check regarding knowing an extremely rare morsel of information). My group, for example, would hate if I decided a "grey area" by such a dice roll; they'd rather that I, as GM, simply decide whether the task succeeds or not, given my familiarity with the character's background and so forth.

What I'm saying is that there is no "magic bullet" to being a good GM. As said above, working together with the personal preferences of your playing group to create and interesting and engaging story/gaming experience is all that matters. If one facilitates this, then he or she is a good GM.

So, if the even/odd rule works for you, then by all means continue using it! But be cautious about pronouncing universal truths based upon entirely subjective issues such as the dynamic and preferences of a particular roleplaying group.

[Gamerprinter]

Using the even/odd rule does not make someone a good GM. As has been said above, the playing style of a particular group is what matters. Some groups might like everything to be decided by dice roll, even in absurd circumstances in which a 50-50 chance lacks conformity with reality (e.g. applying such a coarse probability to, for example, a check regarding knowing an extremely rare morsel of information). My group, for example, would hate if I decided a "grey area" by such a dice roll; they'd rather that I, as GM, simply decide whether the task succeeds or not, given my familiarity with the character's background and so forth.

What I'm saying is that there is no "magic bullet" to being a good GM. As said above, working together with the personal preferences of your playing group to create and interesting and engaging story/gaming experience is all that matters. If one facilitates this, then he or she is a good GM.

So, if the even/odd rule works for you, then by all means continue using it! But be cautious about pronouncing universal truths based upon entirely subjective issues such as the dynamic and preferences of a particular roleplaying group.

Exactly!

And welcome to the guild, introduce yourself in the intro forum and show us a map!

Edit: have some REP for such a well spoken answer!

GP

[NymTevlyn]

Using the even/odd rule does not make someone a good GM. As has been said above, the playing style of a particular group is what matters. Some groups might like everything to be decided by dice roll, even in absurd circumstances in which a 50-50 chance lacks conformity with reality (e.g. applying such a coarse probability to, for example, a check regarding knowing an extremely rare morsel of information). My group, for example, would hate if I decided a "grey area" by such a dice roll; they'd rather that I, as GM, simply decide whether the task succeeds or not, given my familiarity with the character's background and so forth.

What I'm saying is that there is no "magic bullet" to being a good GM. As said above, working together with the personal preferences of your playing group to create and interesting and engaging story/gaming experience is all that matters. If one facilitates this, then he or she is a good GM.

So, if the even/odd rule works for you, then by all means continue using it! But be cautious about pronouncing universal truths based upon entirely subjective issues such as the dynamic and preferences of a particular roleplaying group.

Ok, sure... whatever.

http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/dnd/dungeoncraft/

Read those and then tell me the even/odd rule doesn't work.

[Gamerprinter]

Who is Ray Winninger and why is his word important in understanding RPGs. If they were written by Gary E. Gygax or any one else of major import to the industry I might be interested.

If a Magic 8 ball works for you use it. If even/odd works for you use it. If winging it, especially the oddball issues that come up like I do, use it. If a table from another RPG works for your group use it.

I can't see any one way of arbitration as the only way for anybody. I've been playing D&D for over 25 years, as well other RPGs and never heard of the even/odd roll rule.

There's nothing wrong with the idea in of itself. But different strokes for different folks. Why can't you accept that Nym?

The DMG says the rules are up to the GM, not the Law of the Core. How is it that even/odd defies that? It doesn't. But you can believe whatever you want, just don't think to convince anybody of anything. You ain't selling nothing to me. I don't use even/odd, and I don't plan to start.

For instance, I consider what G. Gygax have said, as carry much more weight than anyone else's work in RPGs, yet, I don't necessarily believe everything he said, either. Its all opinion and indvidual choice, not "law" based on anyone else's ideas or believes.

GP

[NymTevlyn]

"The following is a 29-part series of articles which appeared in Dragon magazine from 1997 to 1999. It was a comprehensive look at the process of traditional dungeon-based game-mastering."

[DungeonMasterGaz]

I’ve played Fighting Fantasy, Tunnels & Trolls, Traveller, Star Trek RP, Star Wars RP, Warhammer Fantasy RP, Warhammer 40k RP, Rolemaster, Spacemaster, Alternity, D20 Modern, Twilight 2000, Spymaster, Boot Hill, Call of Cthulu, TMNT, Paranoia, Toon, MERP, Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, GURPS, Rifts, Gamma World, Torg and Stormbringer, but my favourite roleplaying game has always been D&D.

D&D is great. It doesn’t matter what version you play. I’ve had immense fun playing every version that’s been released. So have all my friends. Now we play 4th Edition and love that too.

I own and have read every 4E book released to date, and I’m also a D&Di subscriber, so I’ve read all the Dungeon and Dragon magazines too. I can’t think of anything I can’t do with 4E that I could with any other version. In fact, I’m sure I can do more. There’s just so much choice. My players have access to 19 races and 18 classes with, currently, 48 builds between the classes, and when you add all the feats, multiclass, hybrid and racial options, you couldn’t get further from the limited choices of Basic D&D. Already, WotC have released playtests of new races and classes to be added in Player’s Handbook 3 which, along with the upcoming releases of the Divine Power and Primal Power sourcebooks, will give even more options for your characters. In fact, personally I feel the game is expanding faster than I can keep up with it!

Roleplaying in 4E is just that. It doesn’t matter what system you use to determine success and failure none of them can give you rules for roleplaying. Advice on how to roleplay better, on the other hand, is in abundance with all RPGs, but nobody needs rules for this part of the game. For combat and other complex activities, you do need rules and boundaries to prevent disagreements and confusion, and preferably these rules should be as simple as possible in order to be able to focus more on the fun and less on the minutae. This keeps the game moving, and in my experience I think 4E has really achieved this. From my point of view, 4E is easier to learn and play than any previous edition of D&D but is far more complex in playability and options.

How many of you guys have played a CCG like Yu-Gi-Oh, or Pokemon? If you have, you’ll immediately recognise the concept – an extremely simple baseline rules system that is supplemented, changed, and augmented in almost limitless ways depending on how you build your deck. Well, that’s all 4E is. IMHO, Hasbro have amalgamated their 3 best-selling game systems – D&D, Magic the Gathering and D&D/Star Wars/Axis & Allies Minature Skirmish Systems, thrown them together and, hey presto! 4E.

I loved playing pre-4E D&D. I loved playing Magic. I liked Minatures skirmishes. DMing is a breeze, and still just as rewarding. I can still express my imagination through the game, and my player’s disbelief is still suspended, so I’m happy with 4E.

Does this mean D&D is no longer a roleplaying game, and just a set of power card driven skirmish rules? Of course not. None of the roleplaying aspects have been taken away from D&D. The stories are just as exciting; the dungeon crawls just as thrilling; the evil wizard just as stereotypical.

The ONLY reason that this wouldn’t be the case is if YOU choose to make it different, but that’s the beauty of it all. It’s YOUR game. YOU play it how YOU want to. Just have great fun and a memorable experience.

My verdict: I’d happily recommend 4E to new players and veterans alike.

DMG