WIP : Haerlech

[J.Edward]

Thanks Meshon. No worries sir.
Hopefully I'll be getting to more of Haerlech today and this weekend.
I am trying to get some boat/ship elements made so I can move along with the water areas.

[ascanius]

Hey, so I really like what you have so far, it's looking really nice. I do think there are a few areas that need work, mostly that ridge near the northwest docks where it goes from shadow to light, it looks, like it's warped or twisted. I think part of the problem is the black line at the base of the ridge and maybe shadows. One thing I think will bring everything out is to use stronger shadows, especially right where the buildings meet the ground, right now the shadows lack depth.

[J.Edward]

Hey ascanius. Can you highlight on the map specifically what you're addressing?

[ascanius]

Haerlech 02e_alt2update3.jpg

Ignore the random black line below 1.

Its the spot where the arrow is. I think the problems are due to areas like the spot labled 1 where the base of the cliff is so close to the contures of the houses and their shadows that it gives it the impression of the same height.

Also, and this i'm not sure about yet, the length of that cliff especially those long lines give the impression of a very shallow slope but then it splits to two steepers slopes. It's sorta an optical illusion, but its the same idea as long horizontal lines giving the impression of wide and long vertical lines giving impression of height. So those long lines the way they are make it look like it has a gentle slope then gets pinched into two steep slopes wich makes it look warped. I'm doing a crap job at explaining this so hopefully that makes sense.

[J.Edward]

I think I see what you're saying. There are a few things I can try to change the effect there.
As a curiosity, I wondered if it would look as odd upside down. So I rotated it and it didn't seem to look as off from that view.
Does it seem that way to you? Haerlech 02e_alt2update4crop.jpg

[ascanius]

Ok that was interesting. At first it didn't look as off, everything looked off/wierd. It took me a few seconds for my brain to orient the light source/the sun as coming from below. It's funny I automatically orient light as coming from up even though in a paintings and such it can come from any direction because it is not dpendent on the sun. But your right its not as noticable. Thanks though you've given me something to ponder about my own map.

[J.Edward]

I'm still going to mess with that area and see what I can do there.
It is interesting. It's part of why I am now trying to move away from that style of cliff.
It just seems to be problematic when you do it from multiple angles in the same piece.
But it's here to stay in this piece and one or two others I have going so I'll have to work with it some more.

Now, off to make boats and ships.

[Chashio]

The extra saturation helped some, and makes more sense, too, if you're going with a brightly lit natural daylight scene as the shadows suggest... but because you're doing that it feels odd to have the black outlines, such as the base-of-cliff line that ascanius pointed out (though it does jump out less with the added saturation). Also, fun little aside: Painters often put the light coming from the left because it reads more naturally for people who read text left to right. You might try putting the water at the bottom and see how that looks... while you're at it. Of course it's me but, if I were doing a bird's-eye-view of this place I would probably lean toward the water at the bottom so you get the extra higher-points-near-the-top aspect going for it. But I also like what you're doing with it, so ignore me.

[J.Edward]

I think I understand what you're saying chashio. It's something I do that seems to put people off at times - mixing line drawing style with more realistic rendering style.
I think that's what your speaking about. It's a weird personal choice. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't.

I think for my next outdoor scene I will try using the left side light source. I don't usually do that and I try to break habits when I can.
You know, I'm not sure if I've done a piece with the water at the bottom. I've done it from all other sides, but not the bottom. I'll have to try that too.

Yeah, at this point I wouldn't change everything here as it involves 2 versions of the city. But I will keep it in mind for the next time.
Oh wait... I just remembered Frosthaven. That had the water at the bottom. I just went back and looked and it also had light from the left.
http://www.cartographersguild.com/sh...ad.php?t=29925
I'm getting old. Memory is not what it used to be.

[Chashio]

I think I understand what you're saying chashio. It's something I do that seems to put people off at times - mixing line drawing style with more realistic rendering style.
I think that's what your speaking about. It's a weird personal choice. Sometimes I do it, sometimes I don't.

Well, sort of. I was looking at it more from an artistic perspective or, well, you'll see what I mean. You know the landscape painting rule that says "cool colors recede and don't put warm colors in the background because they'll jump forward off the page and kill the viewer" ... or something like that, haha! I'm very tired and have forgotten how to more accurately and succinctly explain my point (for anyone who is curious enough to read on, I apologize), but anyway... contrasting values can have a similar effect.

In this case, your solid black lines around the cliffs work better in the areas where there is a distinct change in value on either side (the natural edges of light and shadow) and also in the shadows where the value is the same on both sides but also darker so there's less contrast between the line and the stuff around it. It doesn't work so well in the areas where both sides of the line are lighter, like at the base of the cliff; it throws off the local depth perception, making it difficult for the eye to interpret. If you were to use some kind of technique to soften the lines in the "light|light" areas--perhaps using a thinner line to keep it consistent with other parts of the map, or using a broken line, or other options, it might help things read better while keeping your mixed line art / realistic style intact... which is quite nice and I'm going to sleep now.