Twin River City [WIP]

[XCali]

Fellow guild members, I need your help.

There are a few questions I am finding a hard time answering. Ones I need answering before I can call this map finished. I would GREATLY appreciate feedback from you all regarding these questions.

One, I need a scale. I am really not sure what scale this city map should be. It is a big city, but it is not a colossal city. What scale in feet should I add? (Taking Table top RPGs into account.)

Two, do I need to add a compass for this one? If it something that is going to be used in wildly different scenarios, I feel kind of reluctant to add one. (I have some ready, so that is not the problem.)

Three, due to my lack of real time experience with Tabletop RPGs I am having a hard time thinking of anything I am missing on the map, stuff that is necessary . Or a version thereof.

Four, this is just asking if there are any must change aspects of the Day and Night map that I need to be aware of before I call it finished.

Thank you in advance,
Omri

[MistyBeee]

The night version looks awesome here, Omri
I'm not sure if I can help with your askings, but can try ^^
1/ Maybe I would try to estimate the size of the different elements, and extrapolate a scale from this : decide what is the size of a regular house, the lengh of a dock pier, the size of the main building West of the bridge... with those sizes in mind, you should be able to determine an average scale and see if it sounds consistent or not.
2/ I read once in an old map books that "a map without a compass is not a map but a sketch" and this sentence stayed in my mind for some reason. So if it's a map, I would add a compass ^^. And it's always interesting to give informations like "the tavern is on the Eastern shore".
3/ No idea, as I never played myself ^^'
4/ I don't think so. But I would add a lonely ligh somewhere in the woods at West (similar to those you added on the small islands, both sides of the bridge) : it can be a fun thing to explore for a game, maybe ? Some secret visible only at night...

Anyway, great job !

[XCali]

@MistyBeee Thanks for the feedback. I really do appreciate it.

I went and added a compass and a 2000 feet scale. If anybody think it should be a smaller number or a larger number, pleeeeeease tell me, really.

The mines are in now and a random cave further into the mountains! Yays. I also added lights and a soft glow to a few extra places.

If you all give me the thumbs up for the scale, then I will call it a day and post it as finished. (Barring feedback, I might anyway post one more version with just a handful of names added to a third version of the map. This map will indeed have multiple versions.)

Versions below:
Night With extra added stuff like the compass and scale and mines etc.
Night with banners.
Day with JUST numbers, no banners? Tell me if this would be better or not regarding the numbers version.

Thunder Rock_Scale_Compass.jpeg

Thunder Rock_Night Banners New.jpeg

Thunder Rock_No banners.jpeg

[bkh1914]

I contemplated the scale for far too long (maybe shorter... no, maybe longer)
and in the end I decided that your scale looks entirely reasonable.

I definitely like the numbers without banners better.

[XCali]

I contemplated the scale for far too long (maybe shorter... no, maybe longer)
and in the end I decided that your scale looks entirely reasonable.

I definitely like the numbers without banners better.

Thank you for the feedback! I am glad you think so.

Hmmm, you know what, the banners bug me a bit too. I will try something in my next post.

[XCali]

Hi!

I am about done. In fact I just have to get the name labels to fit to the map and I am done. I have posted the finished maps. But they were without the labels, as that is something I want to get just right.

Other than that, I can't rightly think of anything more to do... So final calls.

This question is aimed for people who has run campaigns in cities or at the very least have gone through quite a few in their RPG's. Are the labels I added sufficient?

This brings me to one of my final questions besides the names one. This thing is going to have so many versions of it! For getting it around easier, it would really help to put into a pdf. Thing is, I have no idea how to put a map into a pdf properly. I would like to have a single pdf with all the versions of the map inside and be able to present it that way to DMs and GMs. Is there anybody on the guild with experience in this regard? I would appreciate a few tips.

### Latest WIP ###
Thunder Rock_ProperNames.jpeg


I'll add a numbers version. Would it work for a city campaign?
Thunder Rock_Day_Just Numbers.jpeg

[Tenia]

Hey XCali !
I missed this thread and first of all I just want to tell you that your city map is splendid.
Because of the large number of POI, putting numbers is the good choice, with only labels it would be too hard to find something on the map. For me, the labels are clear and easely readable, no need for banners. Now, from a player's or gm's perspective, to find a point quickly on a map it would be best if the numbers were ordered geographically. Most are, but some are isolated : I did a test with "42" and I spent a lot of time finding him because I immediately found the 43-49 pack and expected that 42 were nearby There are some others, as 40-41, 90-91 or 60-61 for example. Separate the map into districts can be useful too. Of course this is not redhibitory and on the opposite placing totaly random numbers can be used for role playing : A GM can ask the players to go to some place and gives EXP/Bunnies/etc to the player who found the POI the first (or penalize her/him if her/his character is supposed to have a low INT/WIT/perception/etc. )
Wait, I just realized that you have district names on your nightly map, why not have a map with district labels and POI numbers ?
For the pdf thing, I am not sure to understand completely but why not simply insert the maps as images in a word processor document and export it as a pdf ?

[XCali]

Hey XCali !
I missed this thread and first of all I just want to tell you that your city map is splendid.
Because of the large number of POI, putting numbers is the good choice, with only labels it would be too hard to find something on the map. For me, the labels are clear and easely readable, no need for banners. Now, from a player's or gm's perspective, to find a point quickly on a map it would be best if the numbers were ordered geographically. Most are, but some are isolated : I did a test with "42" and I spent a lot of time finding him because I immediately found the 43-49 pack and expected that 42 were nearby There are some others, as 40-41, 90-91 or 60-61 for example. Separate the map into districts can be useful too. Of course this is not redhibitory and on the opposite placing totaly random numbers can be used for role playing : A GM can ask the players to go to some place and gives EXP/Bunnies/etc to the player who found the POI the first (or penalize her/him if her/his character is supposed to have a low INT/WIT/perception/etc. )
Wait, I just realized that you have district names on your nightly map, why not have a map with district labels and POI numbers ?
For the pdf thing, I am not sure to understand completely but why not simply insert the maps as images in a word processor document and export it as a pdf ?

Thank you so much!

Also, I do appreciate you taking the time to discuss my questions.
Yeah, the number placement didn't work out as well as I hoped. I was trying to make the numbers lead a trail throughout the city. But some of them got lost when I had to backtrack from outside the city. I'll try to make easier to follow from 1 all the up to the end.

In the end I think the versions of this map I feel I should make make available for GMs and DMs are:

Night Full Resolution - Just Title, No numbers or labels.
Day Full Resolution - Just Title, No numbers or labels.

Night Full Resolution - Title, District names
Day Full Resolution - Title, District names

Night Full Resolution - Title, District names and numbers
Day Full Resolution - Title, District names and numbers

Black and White - Title, no names or numbers

(I am not sure if there should be versions without the title name?)

What do you think, Tenia?
(Or anyone just checking in)

[Tenia]

You're welcome
What is the purpose of publishing maps with no names or numbers ? If it's for the GMs can show these maps to the players without showing them POI, just title (and district names optionaly) is ok for me. If it is to offer a "blank" map to the GMs so they can add their own POI or title (and you are perfectly right to not allow this), a map with no title, POI or label is enough.
It would also be interesting to add pieces of your maps to your PDF showing the different districts, so that users don't have to zoom in to see particular places ?
If you intend to publish these maps for online RPG like Fantasy Ground or roll20, adding low res versions of the map would be cool, as size is to be taken into consideration for some games like FG where there is no central server and the download is constrained by the bandwith of the GM's station.
A must would be to add battleground size pictures of different places (usually 100px or 70px for 5") but I understand that your map was not made for this purpose and you would have a lot of work to remove the pixelization.

[XCali]

You're welcome
What is the purpose of publishing maps with no names or numbers ? If it's for the GMs can show these maps to the players without showing them POI, just title (and district names optionaly) is ok for me.

It would also be interesting to add pieces of your maps to your PDF showing the different districts, so that users don't have to zoom in to see particular places ?

If you intend to publish these maps for online RPG like Fantasy Ground or roll20, adding low res versions of the map would be cool, as size is to be taken into consideration for some games like FG where there is no central server and the download is constrained by the bandwith of the GM's station.

A must would be to add battleground size pictures of different places (usually 100px or 70px for 5") but I understand that your map was not made for this purpose and you would have a lot of work to remove the pixelization.

Indeed the JUST title version would be for DM showing it without the POI.

Having the smaller districts as their images, that is something I can try. Though it does create a lot of extra work. But, I will see if I can at least add some districts
Example?
Thunder Rock Bridge map.jpeg

The low res for the site like FG and Roll20, does Pixel by Pixel size matter when I export it at a lower quality for those?

"A must would be to add battleground size pictures" I have not seen city maps presented this way on those RPG shops? Though if I go this direction, it would be a bunch of new maps most properly.

Here is the Night version with the District names AND the numbers. I did spend quite some time to move numbers around so that they are a lot easier to follow. There are still some that might be harder to follow. Like from 40-41 or 67-68 or 93-94. Though not close to as hard as before.

### Latest WIP ###
Thunder Rock_New Numbers+names.jpeg