Level of the adventure

[tilt]

Lets have a quick vote on the powerlevel of the adventure

[Aegeri]

Starting at level 1 is easier to justify and establish, especially because if things go well it might lead into a longer adventure path.

[Yandor]

I say from 1-2 or something along those lines, because this is not only our first adventure, but also the test run into whatever system we are trying to do it in. Regardless I think it would be a lot easier to pull off a lower level adventure to get our feet wet... But whos to say the adventure can't encompass a larger set of levels say 1-5? it all depends on how far everyone wants to take the story arc, and what not...

[NeonKnight]

I firmly believe 1rst level. First level is great intro into our world, where at higher levels, players expect that their characters 'know' something of the world. in 4e this is more prevalent than previous editions. In 4e there is three 'power-levels': Heroic, Paragon, and Epic. the following is from the WotC Website (quoted here for ease of reading, more found at www.wizards.com/dnd

The Heroic Tier [MY COMMENTS: This is levels 1-10]

From the PH: In the heroic tier, your character is already a hero, set apart from the common people by your natural talents, learned skills, and some hint of a greater destiny that lies before you. Your capabilities are largely determined by your choice of character class and to a lesser extent by your race. You move around on foot or on a relatively mundane mount such as a horse. In combat, you might make mighty leaps or incredible climbs, but you’re still basically earthbound. The fate of a village might hang on the success or failure of your adventures, to say nothing of the risk to your own life.

From the DMG: Even 1st-level characters are heroes, set apart from the common people by natural characteristics, learned skills, and some hint of a greater destiny that lies before them.

Adventures: The fate of a village might hang on the success or failure of heroic tier adventurers, to say nothing of the characters’ own lives. Heroic characters navigate dangerous terrain and explore haunted crypts, where they can expect to fight savage orcs, ferocious wolves, giant spiders, evil cultists, bloodthirsty ghouls, and shadarkai assassins. If they face a dragon, it’s a young one that might still be searching for a lair and has not yet found its place in the world—in other words, much like themselves.

The Paragon Tier [MY COMMENTS: This is levels 11-20]

From the PH: In the paragon tier, your character is a shining example of heroism, set well apart from the masses. Your class still largely determines your capabilities. In addition, you gain extra abilities in your specialty: your paragon path. When you reach 11th level, you choose a path of specialization, a course that defines who you are within a certain narrow range of criteria. You are able to travel more quickly from place to place, perhaps on a hippogriff mount or using a spell to grant your party flight. In combat, you might fly or even teleport short distances. Death becomes a surmountable obstacle, and the fate of a nation or even the world might hang in the balance as you undertake momentous quests.

From the DMG: By 11th level, characters are shining examples of courage and determination—true paragons in the world, set well apart from the masses.

Adventures: The fate of a nation or even the world might depend on momentous quests that such characters undertake. Paragon-level adventurers explore uncharted regions and delve long-forgotten dungeons, where they confront savage giants, ferocious hydras, fearless golems, evil yuan-ti, bloodthirsty vampires, crafty mind flayers, and drow assassins. They might face a powerful adult dragon that has established a lair and a role in the world.

The Epic Tier [MY COMMENTS: This is levels 21-30]

From the PH: In the epic tier, your character’s capabilities are truly superheroic. Your class still determines most of your abilities, but your most dramatic powers come from your choice of epic destiny, which you select at 21st level. You travel across nations in the blink of an eye, and your whole party might take to the air in combat. The success or failure of your adventures has far-reaching consequences, possibly determining the fate of millions in this world and even planes beyond.

From the DMG: By 21st level, characters have truly superheroic capabilities, and their deeds and adventures are the stuff of legend. Ordinary people can hardly dream of such heights of power.

Adventures: Epic adventures have far-reaching consequences, possibly determining the fate of millions—in the natural world and even places beyond. Epic characters traverse otherworldly realms and explore never-before-seen caverns of wonder, where they fight savage balor demons, abominations such as the ferocious tarrasque, mind flayer masterminds, terrible archdevils, bloodthirsty lich archmages, and even the gods themselves. The dragons they encounter are ancient wyrms of truly earth-shaking power, whose sleep troubles kingdoms and whose waking threatens existence.

So, what can the above mean for our adventure. I am already hearing the 'OH NO! We want our adventure to revolve around saving a king! According to the above that means we should be paragon level!' Not so, what I see as what we have for our adventure is a great over arching story concept, that will bring the PCs from level 1 to level 10. in other words, HOW exactly did the players become such movers and shakers in our world for the nation in question? Why, by Saving the True King of course! Stoping the nefarious plan of the usrper and restoring the true King. As a result, the King now has a band of powerful allies he can on to assist in the mechanations of powers behind his usurper, etc.

[tilt]

well put NK, however, taking our players from 1st to 11th would probably require a couple (3) adventures and using the old guideline of 13 encounters pr. level would give us the task of making 130 encounters (combat and non-combat) ... I like that as the overall goal however ... but a little ambitious for our first publication

But if we said that the first scenario covers 1st to 4th .. ie 3 levels up.. thats 40 encounters - and the overall story arc isn't finished yet, but the players have reached some sort of goal. That would work

[NeonKnight]

Exactly. First mod takes levels 1-4, covers a bit, and ends in a bigger mystery. Maybe the characters get a wiff of the mystery in the first, and have no clue yet about the identity of the true king. Maybe they were hired by the villain initially etc, etc. I always like to point to the old 1rst editions D&D mods, like the A series each module was a stand alone but lead to bigger mysteries for the next. From Wikipedia:

A1 Slave Pits of the Undercity
The events of the adventure are set in 580 CY, following four years of raids by slavers on the coastal population along the Sea of Gearnat from Onnwal to the Wild Coast. Local lords, finally tired of the situation, hire a band of adventurers to attack the slavers in their home. The adventure begins in the Pomarj city of Highport at a ruined temple which serves as a headquarters for the slavers.[1] The module takes the group through the temple and into the sewers below where giant insect-like creatures make their lair along with the slave lords.

As the adventurers progress on their mission to break up the band of slavers, they battle orcs and the insects in the sewers of the slavers' conquered city.[6] Eventually the group reaches the prisoners and their captors, and finds a map showing the route of the caravans. Following this map leads the group to the second module, Secret of the Slavers Stockade.

A2 Secret of the Slavers Stockade
The previous adventure ends with the capture of a map to a fortress citadel in the hills, used by the slavers as a waypoint on their route.[6] The A2 module gives the Dungeon Master the option to run an overland adventure of 110 miles (177 kilometers) through the Drachensgrab Hills to reach the fort shown on the map, or simply start the adventure with the party overlooking the fort itself. The object of the module is to enter the fort through stealthy means and slowly eliminate the slavers before a general alarm can be raised.
Eventually the group of adventurers makes their way through the fort, avoiding hobgoblin patrols, and reaches a dungeon area. After exploring the dungeons, the players eventually learn that this fort is not the headquarters of the Slave Lords. In fact, the real stronghold of the Slave Lords is located somewhere in the Drachensgrab Hills. This revelation leads the adventurers to the third installment in the series.

A3 Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords
The first part of the module consists of a dangerous labyrinth.[6] This portion of the adventure is meant to be finished within three hours, in tournament mode. It is a trap-filled, monster-heavy section used to lure the group into a secret tunnel leading to the hidden city of Suderham.

In the second part of the adventure, the group discovers the haven of the Slave Lords, a town on an island in a volcanic crater.[6] This new setting, the city of Suderham, offers the players an opportunity to test their roleplaying skills rather than primarily focusing on combat or stealth.

The module provides a number of non-player characters in the city with whom the players can interact and exchange information. To complete the module, the group must find one of several secret entrances to the catacombs beneath the city where the final part of the adventure plays out.

The third section of the adventure moves at a rapid pace in tournament mode, and each room encountered in the level is filled with dangerous creatures. In the final room of the section, the players are captured as a set-up for In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords. If this section is played outside of a tournament, however, it is possible for the players to defeat the slavers and exit the area victorious.

A4 In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords
The A3 module finishes with the player characters as captives of the Slave Lords, and they begin module A4 in the same condition. The module starts with the party trapped, without any gear, deep beneath a volcanic island. The Slave Lords have captured them, and left them into this dark cave system to die when a volcanic eruption destroys the entire island. Through a series of incidents they quickly find themselves free but completely bereft of equipment and spells.

The final scenario plays out as a massive earthquake threatens to bring down the tunnels around the group, and they must exit the caverns within four hours or perish in the ensuing collapse. The labyrinth is a difficult test for characters without equipment and spells, and challenges the players' wits and role-playing ability rather than focusing on traditional combat.

Once the players emerge from the caverns, they face the final test of escaping the island itself, which can be accomplished by attacking the surviving Slave Lords, escaping via a different boat, or possibly by swimming.

So, each of the three modules leads to deeper mysteries, and each can also be a play alone. Fits both groups of players (in the sense of one looking for a one of, and another looking for something to make a campaign from.

Additionally, a small aside. In 4e, it is actually built for faster advancement, and I am just finishing the D&D Essential Module The March of the Phantom Brigade, and there is only 13 encounters, and in those 13 encounters, we will have made 13th level by the 12th encounter. So using that a measuring stick, in 4e, players will make level 10 after only approximately 40 encounters. This XP from combat, roleplay challenges, and story/quest rewards.

[Jaxilon]

I voted for entry level as well. The only question/concern I have in this is how much need for it will there be? For instance, do not most new players and GM's get some sort of simplified adventure included in the introductory books that will move them right past the levels our adventure is designed for? Maybe we are looking for GMs who are bored with running the same starting adventure over and over and that's fine as well but we might miss a larger market. Perhaps we need to do this to have a starting point to build from in the future?

This is all pretty experimental for us as a group working together (and I love that) but maybe we want to just get this starter level adventure out the door and then rethink an entire new story arc for whatever we do in the future based on what we learn here? If we can and want to we can build on this one but I'll be happy if we just put out a good product.

And if we are going to plan a Campaign encompassing story arc I think we might want to sit down again and go over what our strengths are in order to make sure it's better than the average one out there. For example, if we are placing this in our CWBP (which makes good sense as there is already a lot of work put into that) then we need to get up to snuff on what the CWBP is all about. If it's an integrated world with kingdoms struggling for dominance then maybe that's the direction we want to go. If they are more like isolated realms (I haven't read everything on it and need to go brush up myself) then maybe the old seek out artifacts from various parts of the world in order to accomplish "XXXXX" might be a better idea.

All, I mean to say is if we want to create an ever expanding adventure we should start with a massive outline of what that is and fill it in as we go instead of trying to build an epic story off of the King's Cup. The brainstorming is fantastic though and I think this is one of those things that is going to allow for a ton of the talent we have here to really shine. I for one and really excited to see the finished product, I expect it to rock the socks

PS. I know this sort of spans a couple subjects but it all sort of just flowed out so hopefully it will be ok in this thread.

[tilt]

good points both of you (and since the level sort of sets the... eh... workload its allright to span subjects in here )

it makes sense that the encounters are worth more in 4e since they went from 20 to 30 levels and I defiinitly get the general feel of wizards wanting you to raise through the levels fast. Perhaps a little too fast
if we really want a total asskicking campaign we need to have a lot of fleshing out the overall story arc before getting down to the actual scenario and perhaps Jax is right here - that we should start with a one-off ... although I do love the idea of ending up at paragon level

[jtougas]

I voted for 1st level. I think for a first time venture we shouldn't make it too hard on ourselves. I will also admit I'm not a huge fan of the "tiers" of 4e. I do not necessarily prescribe to the notion that a PC is already a hero. I kind of like the idea that through their actions the PCs separate themselves from the general populace and become hero's. (this is just my .02) Also I agree with Jax. If this is to be the start of a series of interconnected adventures that will span a huge arc then we need to decide that (and get writing ) I would vote that this first adventure be a one -off to get our feet wet.

[jfrazierjr]

I agree with jtougas to some degree. As a whole, we(being those who spend a good amount of time on this) should not let the story get to large or nothing will ever get done. Even just an "adventure for character level 1-2" with a raise in level there somewhere would be a good (small!) first effort without being overwhelming. With that said, even in an adventure with 8-10 encounters, there is still plenty of room for adding plot hooks for future adventures. A TON of projects get started with huge overreaching goals and due to the size end up faltering out.