Website finances and our options

[Robbie]

So, it looks like it's come time to figure out a new way of paying for this thing. Due to the amount of people running adblock and the dying web advertising industry, and the fact that I've not had a very successful ad-space selling campaign...the costs of running the dedicated server are about to start coming out of pocket again. Something that hasn't happened in several years. In the short term, I've changed the donation bar to a monthly goal which resets every month, and I'm considering resetting all of the donor titles prior to a certain date I haven't determined yet. But I wanted to discuss some other options with you all first.

1) a dedicated PR person - we've needed someone to be a public relations person for the site for a while, because I'm not good at it, and I'm not around as much as I'd like to be. I can keep the lights on, but I can't be at the cutting edge of the community both here and in other mapping communities to share and cross post and promote interesting things that will generate traffic and ad-clicks. This person would also deal with other companies to help me sell ad-impressions and manage the advertising campaign.

2) a paid subscription level - I've considered this a LOT, but the problem is...no one would want to pay unless there was something to offer. I could apply limitations to non-paying visitors such as storage space, and messaging limitations, and then remove those limitations for paying members. I could also turn off ads for paying members. There are some options, but I'm not sure what I'd be able to promise, deliver, and maintain to make it worth anyones money. If you have any ideas, please comment how much you'd be willing to pay (yearly or monthly) and what you'd like to see as a benefit for being a paid subscriber.

3) a new co-admin - RobA has been probably more absent than I have lately, and that's ok...but it would be nice to have another co-administrator that knows and understands some php programming and linux server management skills. This person would have to be someone I can trust, and someone that would like to help out around here and not get paid for it. PM me or post here if you know anyone or wish to offer your services

The last thing I want to do is abandon the site, but given my current life situation, having this site cut into my personal finances is not an option. I don't have the free cash laying around like I did when I started the site, and I'm not as involved in the gaming community as I need to be to keep the site active and promoted. I'd like to see it thrive though, and am open and welcome to hear all options.

(I will say, I'm not super interested in any kind of retail or selling things right now. Maybe with more active "staff" to help with that, I'd reconsider)

Discuss!

[J.Edward]

Hey Rob,
I know I have been lax this year on the donations. I will correct that today.
This is by far and away my favorite website and has been so useful to me.
I would be willing, if it could be worked out with others, to take up funding a month myself.
Say we could get at least 12 people to commit to each funding a month then the rest of the donations could go toward improvement or something further as the base amount would be covered by these 12 donors. I would be more than happy to do that.

What you started here is a wonderful thing and you shouldn't have to beg for the upkeep.
If the monthly thing can be done, I will be happy to be responsible for October.

Another thought I have had lately, that would require more discussion, is of putting together a map book for sale where we, the cartographers, would retain the right to our map but we would give CG a license to use it in a book to help raise revenue to keep the site going. I think this would be pretty good at creating revenue.
I'll subscribe to this thread. And I'll be sending my donation in just a bit.

Thanks for starting this site Robbie.
It is truly one of the best on the net for maps and good people.

edit - my whole point here was to try to keep the site as it is - not a paid site, if possible.

[Ilanthar]

The internet economy is certainly about to change... and it's our role to push it toward a better model, or so I think. This site and the whole community of the guild has a great value according to me, and it's by far my favorite, and it's the major spot for my time passed on the net.
If only we could get some money from the numerous maps and pictures done by guilders and shown here and there on other sites... but well, too complex to do for a little structure.
My point is that I prefer by far contribute willingly and freely to the site, by giving money. I regret I haven't done it before this year, and I will do it again right now (my own finances getting better). As J. Edward, think that it would be sad to turn it into a paid site, but if you think that the only solution is a subscription : don't hesitate and do it! It will probably rebute some, but I do believe that there are people like me who are ready to pay to maintain such a wonderful site, no matter what.
Anyhow, thank you for this site!

[Robbie]

I hate coming here asking fo rmoney, but every time I do, the members are always so gracious and welcoming to help out. Thank you all for the donations and any overages that happen this month of course will roll over and build up towards software upgrades, and server upgrades (which will eventually need to happen). Thank you all...

Also...I'm still up for discussion on the co-admin and PR roles.

[snodsy]

I agree with everything J. Edward said. This has been such a valuable site for me and I feel I've gotten so much value from this site. it's my Home Page and the first thing I look at each day and probably each night.

Im not sure a pay site is the way to go, don't know if I would have stayed on or tried it, had it been a paid site, but now I'm hooked! I'd be willing to donate more, maybe even carry a month, or at least a partial (not sure of that cost?). This is by far the best site I have ever been part of, creative, insightful, friendly and filled with great people from all over the world.


How about people who get commissions from this site, can there be a flat fee or percentage associated with that? This could also be an area the PR person pursues. Maybe get a publisher who sponsors a challenge, pays a winner, but the guild takes a cut of that sponsored challenge.

Please let us know how to help, so it doesn't go away, I couldn't go on without this site.

[J.Edward]

I'm not sure what you could offer for a paid subscription, but if it came to that I obviously would do it to keep the site going.
I 'm not sure what people would think was a fair price. I suppose it differs from person to person based on what their expectations are.
I know that DA pushed up their subscription price and many balked at the increase. For me, it is a business expense so that will differ from other members.
The yearly cost for DA became $50. That seems a lot but when you derive business from the site, it isn't so unreasonable.
I could go from $50 to $100 per year but again I'm not sure what the subscription benefits would be aside from making sure the site continues.
Maybe in this discussion that will get worked out and more details of what that would entail can be made clear.

Hopefully we can get more discussion on this.

[Robbie]

I'm pretty loathe to consider paid subscription models. I believe the paid forum model is dying also, and monetization should be clever and valuable to the users, without forcing them to just pay for an ad free experience. I'd like to consider the "book of maps" option, if a way to determine what maps go in it without hurting feelings, and a way to have a publisher deal with the distribution aspect of things.

I've considered many times a way to seek a cut of commission work, since there's a lot of business that is done through this site in that regard. In the past it was an honor system of folks who received the commision donating a small amount, and that worked well for a while...but it wasn't very important because ads were almost totally supporting the site. I never really figured out a way to properly collect any money from commisions other than the honor system. Any ideas?

[Barek333]

Since I started actively participating a few months back I said to myself that I should definitely donate since it is like JEdward and snodsy have said, a great site and one of my everyday go to links. I cant contribute as much as some but every little thing helps I guess I hope the site stays alive for a long long time

Cheers,
Barek

[Ilanthar]

A book of maps would surely be great!
In the same kind of idea, what about a "tutorial guide"? There are a lot of good tuto here, and some compilations in different styles would surely be appreciated. Just a thought.

[J.Edward]

I think there are a lot of potential options for monetization. Some obviously are more involved than others.
Perhaps we could set up an entity on DTRPG where the products would all derive profit for the Guild site.
Members could put together a product as a donation for that use. Robbie, you would then be the one with access to that account and as such you would then be able to apply the funds generated toward the sites maintenance. I know we have a number of members here with experience putting together product for DTRPG.
Maybe that could an option. Likewise doing downloadable tutorials on DTRPG or somewhere could also be an option.
We would have to work out some sort of licensing thing as I'm sure members aren't willing to completely give up rights to their work but it's something to think about.

I have some other thoughts and ideas but I have to work so I'll have to come back to those later.